history of the international C60 engine

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i have a friend of mine who is also an international tractor fan who has a 766. we had a discussion about the farmall and international cub today and he tried telling me that the C60 out of a last model year 1979 international cub is not the same engine as found in a 1947 farmall cub. i told him that the blocks are identical with the differences being only carburation, pistons, and perhaps governor. i told him that i could install a 1979 international cub engine in my 1948 farmall cub tractor making no modifications to the tractor itself. he thinks it would never bolt up and the bolt holes arent even the same. i think he is wrong and my friend is a "know it all" type, i want to prove him wrong. who is right?? how can i prove him wrong?

thoughts?

[Barnyard]

who is right??

You are right.

how can i prove him wrong?

If just telling him doesn't seem to convince him, then the only other way to prove it is to bolt one to your Cub.

[64/67lo-boy]

I like your dillema. Heres what i figure. The c60 bolts up to the torque tube and the bolster so the torque tube part number was back in 1949 351 686 R1 and in 1979 it was 351 686 R3. So there were two changes made. Figure out what those two changes were and if it was not the bolt patern were the c60 bolts up, then the C60 will fit all years. I have not checked the bolster party number to determin how many changes it has had.

[Bob McCarty]

I don't think IH used the same part number on a "revised part" if it was not backward compatible.

Bob

[64/67lo-boy]

Good point Bob. How do we figure out what the up gradesd were?

[Bob McCarty]

We ask Jim Becker, of course.

Bob

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

The engines will directly bolt up, but there were changes made, block strengthened, manifold modified, etc.

[64/67lo-boy]

How do those changes afect the bolt up to the torque tube and the bolster. That will detemin if the C60 will be interchangeble between all years of the cub.

[Bob McCarty]

Those changes don't affect bolt alignment at either end. IE., I've put a 154 engine in a '49 cub without any problems. I think you would have to look real close and be real knowledgeable to notice any differences.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

Of course the engines interchange between all years of Cubs. I can't believe that anyone that has been on this site for an extended time would even question it. The last Cub built had an engine block with the same base part number as the first Cub. When the digit after the "R" was increased, the new part was backwards compatible to the lower number. A lower number is not necessarily forward compatible to the higher number. If a new part wasn't backward compatible, the whole number changed.

The specifics of what changed with a given revision was occasionally documented in a service bulletin. Identifying most changes would probably require a look at both part drawings. We don't have access to most drawings.

[bob in CT]

I think the switch to 12 volt starters made the major change to the block.

[Jim Becker]

I think the switch to 12 volt starters made the major change to the block.

Yes, that was the reason for the change from R7 to R8. The oil filter bolt changed because of it. That was documented in a service bulletin.

[Rudi]

I like Jim's answer.

I would imagine if you took a copy of the original TC-37 and a copy of the last TC-37 Revision and compared part numbers, that should about do it. If he doesn't buy that, don't bother wasting your energy. Some folks' opinion cannot be changed no matter what. It is like those Cubs on TractorHouse.com - one is described as 1941 and another as a 1946. Hello..... 501 was a '47 ....

[Lurker Carl]

Instead of you proving the engines will interchange, have your "friend" prove they will not.

[Winfield Dave]

Instead of you proving the engines will interchange, have your "friend" prove they will not.