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Touch control 10w oil replacement
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- 10+ Years
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- Tractors Owned: 1953 F-Cub
1957 F-Cub
1956 Lo-Boy
1971 Cub Cadet 149
1976 Cub Cadet 1200 - Circle of Safety: Y
Touch control 10w oil replacement
Gentlemen;
Can someone tell me what IH/Case techs recommend for replacement in regards to the Touch Control oil. I have the original maintenace manual for my 1953 cub and it states that 10w oil is the only oil approved for the Touch Control hydraulics. The local case dealer thinks Hy-tran is a suitable replacement.
My thoughts are its ok to use Hy-tran fuild but make sure those seals at the hydaulic pump never leak. If they do then hydraulic fluid will end up in the crankcase and we all know it not acceptable to mix engine oil and hydraulic fluid since bearing failure will occur.
Is it possible to get 10w oil anywhere?? What are your thoughts....
NJ Farmer
Can someone tell me what IH/Case techs recommend for replacement in regards to the Touch Control oil. I have the original maintenace manual for my 1953 cub and it states that 10w oil is the only oil approved for the Touch Control hydraulics. The local case dealer thinks Hy-tran is a suitable replacement.
My thoughts are its ok to use Hy-tran fuild but make sure those seals at the hydaulic pump never leak. If they do then hydraulic fluid will end up in the crankcase and we all know it not acceptable to mix engine oil and hydraulic fluid since bearing failure will occur.
Is it possible to get 10w oil anywhere?? What are your thoughts....
NJ Farmer
- Carm
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- Tractors Owned: 1947 FCub 1948 FCub (FrankenCub), 1949 C, 1952 SA, 1963 IH 3414 Backhoe Diesel, 1960 Oliver 880 Diesel, 1945 Mack EF Fire Truck
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- John *.?-!.* cub owner
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As Bw said, Hytran is the current reccomended oil. It started being used just a few years after touch control was introduced. since yours probably has 10W in it now, you might want to get some extra, and drain the orignal, refill it and use it a little, then drain and refill it again to make sure all the 10W is out.
If you are not part of the solution,
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you are part of the problem!!!
- cowboy
- 10+ Years
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Go with the Hy-tran it is designed to asorb water and keep it suspended so it dosen't gather in one place. And in the winter freeze and break somthing.
Last edited by cowboy on Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you. 1964 cub. Farmall 100 and 130.
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- John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Hydralic oil does not provide the high temperature lubrication and antifoaming engine oil does, if it leaks into the crankcase of the engine (via the pump), it dilutes the oil. I don't know how rapidly it would cause a beairng failure, but I have a cousin that can testify that this will definitely result in a loss of power and smoking. If you are referring to mixed in the TC case, I don't know if it will cause a failure, but personally I prefer not to mix different types of lubricants.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
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- 10+ Years
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5- Cub Cadets - Location: Alexandria, La.
in the crankcase, this in itself will not cause catastrophic failure of the bearings. If so the engine was already heading south.
I have a leaking pump seal and the only result will be a very clean engine.
Please read this before flaming. Once I discovered this problem I quit running the Cub until I can replace the seal. There was no change in oil pressure(40PSI) or any other indication of a problem other than an increase in oil level.
I don't want people to think a mixture of hy-tran and engine oil equals doom for their engine. Do like I have. Park it until you can fix the problem.
I have a leaking pump seal and the only result will be a very clean engine.
Please read this before flaming. Once I discovered this problem I quit running the Cub until I can replace the seal. There was no change in oil pressure(40PSI) or any other indication of a problem other than an increase in oil level.
I don't want people to think a mixture of hy-tran and engine oil equals doom for their engine. Do like I have. Park it until you can fix the problem.
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- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:20 pm
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- Tractors Owned: 1953 F-Cub
1957 F-Cub
1956 Lo-Boy
1971 Cub Cadet 149
1976 Cub Cadet 1200 - Circle of Safety: Y
Thanks for the tips. I will get some Hytran fluid. As far as mixing hydraulic fluid and regular engine oil. I can say that hydraulic fluid will break down due to excessive heat in the combustion chamber and around the bearing caps leading to coking. The coking is what will lead to friction and down the road bearing failure.
The true tip is to stop operation of the tractor when you notice your engine is "making" oil when you check the level and it rises over time. Also if the oil smells a little burnt....
NJ Farmer
The true tip is to stop operation of the tractor when you notice your engine is "making" oil when you check the level and it rises over time. Also if the oil smells a little burnt....
NJ Farmer
- beaconlight
- 10+ Years
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I have Lickety Spliter log splitter. The directions say to use 30 weight oil or hydraulic fluid. They also state that which ever one you use to stay with that one and not to mix or change from one to the other.
Bill
Bill
Bill
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"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
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" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
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- 10+ Years
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Hy-Tran is basically SAE 10-W oil with additives, but I do not, or would not recommend mixing Hy-Tran and 10 W or any other type oil.
When looking through the on-line IH Archives on the Wisconsin Historical Society web site, I found this Product Identification Committee, Decision NO. 299, dated August 11, 1958, quoted here in part.
Quote: HY-TRAN TRADE NAME FOR OIL, Farm Tractor Division Affected. The 340 through the 660-series models in our new line of tractors will incorporate a hydraulic system which will utlize the same oil as used in the transmissiom. In test it was found that the fluid best adapted for this purpose is a 13341 oil composed of SAE 10-W combined with an extreme pressure lubricity agent.
For field use, the proposed oil is to be packaged under the IH label in one-quart, one-gallon, and five-gallon containers.
The Wheel Tractor Committee, in Report N0, 623, has recommended the new oil be known as IH HY-TRAN Fluid, End Quote. It goes on to tell who approved the name, and the in house procedures to follow for registration of the name.
So even though HY-TRAN, and it's present day version HY-TRAN ULTRA, may be basically SAE 10-W oil, with the additives and specially its ability to absorb water/condensation, makes it in my opinion, the only thing to use in the touch control system and or transaxles of Cubs. That is all I use in my Cub Cadet transaxles, gear drive or hydro, although early Cubs that were used for years with 90 W gear oil in the trans, may be a bit quieter with 90W than Hy-Tran. I see other brands of hydraulic fluid that say they are a replacement for Hy-Tran, and every other OEM brand, and they probably are a replacement, but I doubt they are the same. I doubt any one replacement fluid can be compatible with, or meet the same requirements, of all the different OEM fluids that they claim to. Are they as good as OEM?. Don't know, haven't tried them, not going to. But thats just my opinion.
When looking through the on-line IH Archives on the Wisconsin Historical Society web site, I found this Product Identification Committee, Decision NO. 299, dated August 11, 1958, quoted here in part.
Quote: HY-TRAN TRADE NAME FOR OIL, Farm Tractor Division Affected. The 340 through the 660-series models in our new line of tractors will incorporate a hydraulic system which will utlize the same oil as used in the transmissiom. In test it was found that the fluid best adapted for this purpose is a 13341 oil composed of SAE 10-W combined with an extreme pressure lubricity agent.
For field use, the proposed oil is to be packaged under the IH label in one-quart, one-gallon, and five-gallon containers.
The Wheel Tractor Committee, in Report N0, 623, has recommended the new oil be known as IH HY-TRAN Fluid, End Quote. It goes on to tell who approved the name, and the in house procedures to follow for registration of the name.
So even though HY-TRAN, and it's present day version HY-TRAN ULTRA, may be basically SAE 10-W oil, with the additives and specially its ability to absorb water/condensation, makes it in my opinion, the only thing to use in the touch control system and or transaxles of Cubs. That is all I use in my Cub Cadet transaxles, gear drive or hydro, although early Cubs that were used for years with 90 W gear oil in the trans, may be a bit quieter with 90W than Hy-Tran. I see other brands of hydraulic fluid that say they are a replacement for Hy-Tran, and every other OEM brand, and they probably are a replacement, but I doubt they are the same. I doubt any one replacement fluid can be compatible with, or meet the same requirements, of all the different OEM fluids that they claim to. Are they as good as OEM?. Don't know, haven't tried them, not going to. But thats just my opinion.
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- Team Cub
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Well said.
One point for the benefit of anyone that isn't familiar with it, an extreme pressure additive (EP) keps the lubricant film in place under the high pressure between the faces of gear teeth. This is most important on bevel gears, especially hypoid gears where there is some sliding on the faces of the teeth. EP additives are why oils no longer need to have the high viscosity of 90 weight gear oil.
One point for the benefit of anyone that isn't familiar with it, an extreme pressure additive (EP) keps the lubricant film in place under the high pressure between the faces of gear teeth. This is most important on bevel gears, especially hypoid gears where there is some sliding on the faces of the teeth. EP additives are why oils no longer need to have the high viscosity of 90 weight gear oil.
- Buzzard Wing
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WOW, you just answered my question on what to use in the final drives and transmission!
I bought 2 gallons of HyTran at a dealer (the main reason I went) last year and was on the fence about using it for the final drives and trans, because everyone else seems to use gear oil. Sounds like HyTran is the best!
Thanks.
I bought 2 gallons of HyTran at a dealer (the main reason I went) last year and was on the fence about using it for the final drives and trans, because everyone else seems to use gear oil. Sounds like HyTran is the best!
Thanks.
1971 Cub (Rufus) 1950 Cub (Cathy) 1965 Lo Boy Fast Hitch (Nameless III) 1970 Cub 1000 Loader & Fast Hitch (Lee)
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- 10+ Years
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- Zip Code: 71303
- Tractors Owned: 1-69 Cub
5- Cub Cadets - Location: Alexandria, La.
The purests will stick with Hy-Tran, I will use what is best for my wallet and compatible with hy-tran.
AGRIPRO UNIVERSAL TRACTOR HYDRAULIC FLUID (UTHF) meets or exceeds the following fluid requirements:
John Deere J20C\D (Hy-Gard), J20A/B, J14B (303 Fluid)
Allison C-3, C-4
Ford New Holland M2C134-A\B\C\D, M2C41-B, M2C48B, M2C53-A, M2C86-B\C
Massey Ferguson M1141(Permatran III), M1135, M1129A (Permatran), M1127A\B, M1110
JI Case MS-1207 (Hy-Tran Plus), MS-1206 (Powergard PTF), MS-1210/JIC145 (TCH), MS 1205, Ms-1204/JIC 185, JIC-144, JIC-143
Caterpillar TO-2
VICKERS 35VQ25
Kubota UDT Fluid
Renk (Bus ATF)
International B-6 (Hy-Tran), B-5
Deutz-Allis 272843, 257541, & 246634
White Farm Q-1826, Q-1766B (Universal HTF), Q-1766, Q-1722, Q-1705
White Oliver Type 55 (Q-1802)
Sundstrand
Steiger Hydr. Tran. Fl.
Versatile Gear & Hydra. Tran. Fl.
Landini
Hesston Fiat AF-87
AGRIPRO UNIVERSAL TRACTOR HYDRAULIC FLUID (UTHF) meets or exceeds the following fluid requirements:
John Deere J20C\D (Hy-Gard), J20A/B, J14B (303 Fluid)
Allison C-3, C-4
Ford New Holland M2C134-A\B\C\D, M2C41-B, M2C48B, M2C53-A, M2C86-B\C
Massey Ferguson M1141(Permatran III), M1135, M1129A (Permatran), M1127A\B, M1110
JI Case MS-1207 (Hy-Tran Plus), MS-1206 (Powergard PTF), MS-1210/JIC145 (TCH), MS 1205, Ms-1204/JIC 185, JIC-144, JIC-143
Caterpillar TO-2
VICKERS 35VQ25
Kubota UDT Fluid
Renk (Bus ATF)
International B-6 (Hy-Tran), B-5
Deutz-Allis 272843, 257541, & 246634
White Farm Q-1826, Q-1766B (Universal HTF), Q-1766, Q-1722, Q-1705
White Oliver Type 55 (Q-1802)
Sundstrand
Steiger Hydr. Tran. Fl.
Versatile Gear & Hydra. Tran. Fl.
Landini
Hesston Fiat AF-87
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:42 am
- Zip Code: 71303
- Tractors Owned: 1-69 Cub
5- Cub Cadets - Location: Alexandria, La.
I checked the Mil Spec for two popular fluids. One a motor oil and the other a hydraulic fluid.
The oil had a flash point of 285C.
The hyd fluid had a flash point of 395C.
Don't think coking would be a problem with that hydro fluid.
Hydraulic systems operate under extreme temps so fluids used must be tough as nails...
The oil had a flash point of 285C.
The hyd fluid had a flash point of 395C.
Don't think coking would be a problem with that hydro fluid.
Hydraulic systems operate under extreme temps so fluids used must be tough as nails...
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