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Touch control 10w oil replacement

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NJ Farmer
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Touch control 10w oil replacement

Postby NJ Farmer » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:44 am

Gentlemen;
Can someone tell me what IH/Case techs recommend for replacement in regards to the Touch Control oil. I have the original maintenace manual for my 1953 cub and it states that 10w oil is the only oil approved for the Touch Control hydraulics. The local case dealer thinks Hy-tran is a suitable replacement.

My thoughts are its ok to use Hy-tran fuild but make sure those seals at the hydaulic pump never leak. If they do then hydraulic fluid will end up in the crankcase and we all know it not acceptable to mix engine oil and hydraulic fluid since bearing failure will occur.

Is it possible to get 10w oil anywhere?? What are your thoughts....

NJ Farmer

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Postby Carm » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:54 am

Hy tran is the stuff!

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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:33 am

As Bw said, Hytran is the current reccomended oil. It started being used just a few years after touch control was introduced. since yours probably has 10W in it now, you might want to get some extra, and drain the orignal, refill it and use it a little, then drain and refill it again to make sure all the 10W is out.
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Postby cowboy » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:35 am

Go with the Hy-tran it is designed to asorb water and keep it suspended so it dosen't gather in one place. And in the winter freeze and break somthing.
Last edited by cowboy on Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby moe1942 » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:47 am

Since when does a mixture of hydraulic fluid and oil cause bearing failure?

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Postby Brent » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:16 am

I don't have a Case dealer close by and they won't ship the Hy-Tran. I found a replacement at both Napa and Car Quest. Even says on the back of container that it is a replacement for Hy-Tran.
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:21 am

Hydralic oil does not provide the high temperature lubrication and antifoaming engine oil does, if it leaks into the crankcase of the engine (via the pump), it dilutes the oil. I don't know how rapidly it would cause a beairng failure, but I have a cousin that can testify that this will definitely result in a loss of power and smoking. If you are referring to mixed in the TC case, I don't know if it will cause a failure, but personally I prefer not to mix different types of lubricants.
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Postby moe1942 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:35 am

in the crankcase, this in itself will not cause catastrophic failure of the bearings. If so the engine was already heading south.

I have a leaking pump seal and the only result will be a very clean engine.

Please read this before flaming. Once I discovered this problem I quit running the Cub until I can replace the seal. There was no change in oil pressure(40PSI) or any other indication of a problem other than an increase in oil level.

I don't want people to think a mixture of hy-tran and engine oil equals doom for their engine. Do like I have. Park it until you can fix the problem.

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Postby NJ Farmer » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:57 am

Thanks for the tips. I will get some Hytran fluid. As far as mixing hydraulic fluid and regular engine oil. I can say that hydraulic fluid will break down due to excessive heat in the combustion chamber and around the bearing caps leading to coking. The coking is what will lead to friction and down the road bearing failure.

The true tip is to stop operation of the tractor when you notice your engine is "making" oil when you check the level and it rises over time. Also if the oil smells a little burnt....

NJ Farmer

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Postby beaconlight » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:22 am

I have Lickety Spliter log splitter. The directions say to use 30 weight oil or hydraulic fluid. They also state that which ever one you use to stay with that one and not to mix or change from one to the other.

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Postby Paul B » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:44 am

Hy-Tran is basically SAE 10-W oil with additives, but I do not, or would not recommend mixing Hy-Tran and 10 W or any other type oil.

When looking through the on-line IH Archives on the Wisconsin Historical Society web site, I found this Product Identification Committee, Decision NO. 299, dated August 11, 1958, quoted here in part.

Quote: HY-TRAN TRADE NAME FOR OIL, Farm Tractor Division Affected. The 340 through the 660-series models in our new line of tractors will incorporate a hydraulic system which will utlize the same oil as used in the transmissiom. In test it was found that the fluid best adapted for this purpose is a 13341 oil composed of SAE 10-W combined with an extreme pressure lubricity agent.

For field use, the proposed oil is to be packaged under the IH label in one-quart, one-gallon, and five-gallon containers.

The Wheel Tractor Committee, in Report N0, 623, has recommended the new oil be known as IH HY-TRAN Fluid, End Quote. It goes on to tell who approved the name, and the in house procedures to follow for registration of the name.

So even though HY-TRAN, and it's present day version HY-TRAN ULTRA, may be basically SAE 10-W oil, with the additives and specially its ability to absorb water/condensation, makes it in my opinion, the only thing to use in the touch control system and or transaxles of Cubs. That is all I use in my Cub Cadet transaxles, gear drive or hydro, although early Cubs that were used for years with 90 W gear oil in the trans, may be a bit quieter with 90W than Hy-Tran. I see other brands of hydraulic fluid that say they are a replacement for Hy-Tran, and every other OEM brand, and they probably are a replacement, but I doubt they are the same. I doubt any one replacement fluid can be compatible with, or meet the same requirements, of all the different OEM fluids that they claim to. Are they as good as OEM?. Don't know, haven't tried them, not going to. But thats just my opinion.

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Postby Jim Becker » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:57 am

Well said.

One point for the benefit of anyone that isn't familiar with it, an extreme pressure additive (EP) keps the lubricant film in place under the high pressure between the faces of gear teeth. This is most important on bevel gears, especially hypoid gears where there is some sliding on the faces of the teeth. EP additives are why oils no longer need to have the high viscosity of 90 weight gear oil.

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Postby Buzzard Wing » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:21 am

WOW, you just answered my question on what to use in the final drives and transmission!
I bought 2 gallons of HyTran at a dealer (the main reason I went) last year and was on the fence about using it for the final drives and trans, because everyone else seems to use gear oil. Sounds like HyTran is the best!

Thanks.
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Postby moe1942 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:51 am

The purests will stick with Hy-Tran, I will use what is best for my wallet and compatible with hy-tran.




AGRIPRO UNIVERSAL TRACTOR HYDRAULIC FLUID (UTHF) meets or exceeds the following fluid requirements:

John Deere J20C\D (Hy-Gard), J20A/B, J14B (303 Fluid)

Allison C-3, C-4

Ford New Holland M2C134-A\B\C\D, M2C41-B, M2C48B, M2C53-A, M2C86-B\C

Massey Ferguson M1141(Permatran III), M1135, M1129A (Permatran), M1127A\B, M1110

JI Case MS-1207 (Hy-Tran Plus), MS-1206 (Powergard PTF), MS-1210/JIC145 (TCH), MS 1205, Ms-1204/JIC 185, JIC-144, JIC-143

Caterpillar TO-2

VICKERS 35VQ25

Kubota UDT Fluid

Renk (Bus ATF)

International B-6 (Hy-Tran), B-5

Deutz-Allis 272843, 257541, & 246634

White Farm Q-1826, Q-1766B (Universal HTF), Q-1766, Q-1722, Q-1705

White Oliver Type 55 (Q-1802)

Sundstrand

Steiger Hydr. Tran. Fl.

Versatile Gear & Hydra. Tran. Fl.

Landini

Hesston Fiat AF-87

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Postby moe1942 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:59 am

I checked the Mil Spec for two popular fluids. One a motor oil and the other a hydraulic fluid.

The oil had a flash point of 285C.

The hyd fluid had a flash point of 395C.

Don't think coking would be a problem with that hydro fluid.

Hydraulic systems operate under extreme temps so fluids used must be tough as nails... 8)


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