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French cubs etc AGAIN!

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Patbretagne
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French cubs etc AGAIN!

Postby Patbretagne » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:07 am

It's raining, I'm doing some plans for modernising a house for a customer, getting bored, I've got to thinking about No2, which apart from the maker's plate it is a SUPER, It's not the rarity that interests me but the correctness and just to know!
I popped over to the "shed" and had a look again, took a photo to see what you think.
Personally I think someone has done a switcheroo, over here the tractor has to have a carte grise (grey card) and have a licence plate and number, some of the old farmers never bothered, I think this one was a "never bother" and when another cub broke down, the owner changed the manufacturers plate from one to the other to be able to continue with his tractor on the road licence platen carte grise.

If you look carefully there is a stain where a bigger plate was and the rivets have recent centre punch marks in them,

Hows thet Watson? Signed Sherlock Pat
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johnbron
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Re: French cubs etc AGAIN!

Postby johnbron » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:52 am

Patbretagne wrote:If you look carefully there is a stain where a bigger plate was and the rivets have recent centre punch marks in them.


Pat, That could be the case but I would think that if there was a bigger plate there would be 4 vacant holes to match up with being closer to the bigger plates edge. that would place them above and below the existing plate. Unless they were filled very neatly and are undetectable. {Sherlock} :twisted:
Then came Bronson

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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:18 am

The way each corner of the plate is roughed up would tend to support your theory also.

I would thinki it would have been easier for the mamufacturerer to make/buy serial plates with the holes offset than to make a build a new jug for drilling holes in differetn locations.
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you are part of the problem!!!

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Postby johnbron » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:38 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:The way each corner of the plate is roughed up would tend to support your theory also.

I would thinki it would have been easier for the mamufacturerer to make/buy serial plates with the holes offset than to make a build a new jug for drilling holes in differetn locations.


John the reason for my answered thought is because the plate on my Cub power-unit has the looks of a bigger plate being replaced by a smaller plate but there are still 4-vacant rivet holes just on the outside of the replacement plate where the corners of the bigger/original plate was.
Then came Bronson

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Postby Bob McCarty » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:58 pm

Hi Pat, I don't know about the legality of doing the switch, but if it is illegal to do that, don't you think the previous owner would have been concerned about any future inspection of the SN plate, and how obvious it would be that the switch had been done? Bob

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Postby Jim Becker » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:37 pm

Look for the engine number stamped into your block. If it looks like a USA number it will provide more evidence. (I don't know what a French engine number looks like though.) Check this page at TM Tractors for the engine number location (at least for US builds).

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_003.htm

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Patbretagne
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plate legality

Postby Patbretagne » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:08 pm

rjmac wrote:Hi Pat, I don't know about the legality of doing the switch,

Out in the sticks in the centre of France there are not many inspections, in fact I think that the Gendarmerie would not even be very interested even if they realised there had been a switch. As the engine number does not appear on the Garte Grise for a vehicle, there is no other way of cheching for the gendarme.
BUT I think the centre punch would be a bit of a give away, I've asked Paul from another post to see if he wouls be willing to send me a few rivets if he buys a boxful, no-one will then realise.
Don't forget also that the average frenchman loves to have one over on the French Government if the opportunity arises!
Pat

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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:10 pm

[quote="Jim Becker"]Look for the engine number stamped into your block.
Jim, thanks I'll have a look and post the number for help when it gets light, Pat

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Postby Marion(57 Loboy) » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:51 am

one possible explanation for the obvious signs that serial tag was removed at one point:

' so it wouldn't get painted over' ??

just a guess....

I would think, if it was indeed a 'switch' to avoid the expense of another registration, much more care would have been taken to hide the 'evidence' ??

again, just a guess...

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Postby Mike Schmudlach » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:17 pm

On both a French Cub and a French Super Cub the serial number is on both the serial number plate and stamped on the right side of the torque tube on the flat machined spot between the two implement mounting bolt holes.
I will try and post a picture later.
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Postby Patbretagne » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:41 am

Jim Becker wrote:Look for the engine number stamped into your block. If it looks like a USA number it will provide more evidence. (I don't know what a French engine number looks like though.)


It got light and dark again! Work tended to get in the way yesterday, but,
The cub in question with the unsure plate has engine number S FC60 7067 The tractor suposed number is 706575.

How does that fit in with the US/French numbering system? Thanks Jim
Pat

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Patbretagne
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Postby Patbretagne » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:43 am

Mike Schmudlach wrote:I will try and post a picture later.
Mike

Mike, a photo would be a great help, I've not found it!!! :x

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Postby yaume » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:37 am

The cub in question with the unsure plate has engine number S FC60 7067


Pat

just an idea
on french cubs, the serial plate is stamped with the model type:
french cubs : FFCUB (french farmall cub) (like mine)
super cubs : SFCUB (or maybe SFFCUB)
americain cubs : FCUB

don't need any serial N° to know the type (I guess)

PS : did you managed anything about the old big engine??
what makes my cub very rare is that it's the only one I've ever owned.

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Postby Patbretagne » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:11 am

Salut Yaume,
Thanks for the info, but as I think that the plate comes off another Cub it doesn't neccessarily tell the correct story, I'm waiting to see if the number is also on the torque tube.
I have been a bit busy with work the last couple of days, but The BIG engine interests me, Even if it is impossible to completely restore it, it should not be lost to the scrapman's torch for a few euros of transport. I am planning to come down very soon to have a look and I hope to meet you, thanks for the reply
Pat

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Postby Jim Becker » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:40 am

US built Cubs typically had engine numbers with a prefix "FCUBM" followed by a number. Your engine number looks French and seems reasonable for going with your tractor serial number. Unless somebody went to A LOT of trouble to restamp the engine block, it seems like it started out on the same tractor as the serial plate. Possibly the lower radiator housing was replaced and the serial number transfered. Maybe the tractor was pieced together from 2 and the original engine and serial number both came from the same donor. I am just guessing at this point.


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