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Getting her started again.
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- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
- Location: Mo, Potosi
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: Maine
After a cooling down period, I went back to it today. I checked with the clutch down, I removed the governor, and I removed the hydraulic pump. No joy.
So if I pull the head, what should I be looking for? I've got the head off the "old" engine, and I'm not sure I'd learn anything about the valves that I haven't learned from peering in the valve cover. I can look for gasket leakage, but since it won't turn with the spark plugs removed, I don't expect that that's the core problem either.
I'm afraid that I'll have to look for the problem somewhere else, like under the front cover in among the timing gears.
Meanwhile, I have the old engine on the bench, with the flywheel, oil pump, back seal, oil pan, pick up tube, governor, and magneto removed. That crack is ugly. It was welded before. There are beads of weld that come all the way through, but there's still some area of unwelded crack too. And then there's the new crack, which is just aft of the original crack and weld. The new crack has also been welded, but it's just a surface weld that doesn't go all the way through. If failed, and someone smeared goo over it (probably JB Weld) which of course didn't stop it from leaking oil either.
Has anyone ever had a block crack successfully welded? Should I bother?
And I can't seem to get the pulley off either. I broke one of the three arms of my cheap wheel puller trying. The book shows a special backing plate and an imense puller for the job, but I don't have those.
Dan
So if I pull the head, what should I be looking for? I've got the head off the "old" engine, and I'm not sure I'd learn anything about the valves that I haven't learned from peering in the valve cover. I can look for gasket leakage, but since it won't turn with the spark plugs removed, I don't expect that that's the core problem either.
I'm afraid that I'll have to look for the problem somewhere else, like under the front cover in among the timing gears.
Meanwhile, I have the old engine on the bench, with the flywheel, oil pump, back seal, oil pan, pick up tube, governor, and magneto removed. That crack is ugly. It was welded before. There are beads of weld that come all the way through, but there's still some area of unwelded crack too. And then there's the new crack, which is just aft of the original crack and weld. The new crack has also been welded, but it's just a surface weld that doesn't go all the way through. If failed, and someone smeared goo over it (probably JB Weld) which of course didn't stop it from leaking oil either.
Has anyone ever had a block crack successfully welded? Should I bother?
And I can't seem to get the pulley off either. I broke one of the three arms of my cheap wheel puller trying. The book shows a special backing plate and an imense puller for the job, but I don't have those.
Dan
- George Willer
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7013
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm
- Zip Code: 43420
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OHIO, Fremont
- Contact:
Dan,
I don't know what problem your replacement engine has, but I would consider the original broken one to be a donor for any parts you may need to repair it.
You've found why the welded blocks can be a problem. A metalurgist can tell you why the cast iron is weaker in a boundary adjacent to the weld and it can never be as strong as original. Even the original wasn't strong enough in that high stress area! Welding is a good repair for cast if it isn't a high stress area.
You should do the detective work to find the guy who welded it... he doesn't know it failed and is probably still telling folks he can repair them as good as new!
I don't know what problem your replacement engine has, but I would consider the original broken one to be a donor for any parts you may need to repair it.
You've found why the welded blocks can be a problem. A metalurgist can tell you why the cast iron is weaker in a boundary adjacent to the weld and it can never be as strong as original. Even the original wasn't strong enough in that high stress area! Welding is a good repair for cast if it isn't a high stress area.
You should do the detective work to find the guy who welded it... he doesn't know it failed and is probably still telling folks he can repair them as good as new!
George Willer
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
- Patbretagne
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Location: Finistère Bretagne France
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
- Location: Mo, Potosi
Can you turn the engine backwards a little? If so you may have a stuck or bent vlave. When pulling the crankshaft pulley you need something that will grip the hub behind the pulley lfnage. if you pull on the flange it WILL break. Here is a link to an ealrkier discussion icluding a picture of my homemade puller. http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewto ... crankshaft
Before pullling the front cover I would drop the oil pan and loosen the rod and manin bearing caps.
Before pullling the front cover I would drop the oil pan and loosen the rod and manin bearing caps.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
- Patbretagne
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Location: Finistère Bretagne France
Stuck engine,
If i remember right, havn't you spent a lot of time charging up battery trying to start the engine and recharging.
Could you have washed all the oil down from the pistons and the engine has just locked up on it's dry dry pistons, My number 1 was a bit like that, very difficult to turn because the last owner had tried and tried to start it not realising that valves were not seating properly, flooded the engine regularly washing all lubrication from the cylinder walls and it was ALMOST stuck solid,
Just a thought that may help, Keep at it,
By the way stitching up cast iron makes a wonderful repair, if you like I could send you an article in Vintage Tractor produced in UK.
Patrick
Could you have washed all the oil down from the pistons and the engine has just locked up on it's dry dry pistons, My number 1 was a bit like that, very difficult to turn because the last owner had tried and tried to start it not realising that valves were not seating properly, flooded the engine regularly washing all lubrication from the cylinder walls and it was ALMOST stuck solid,
Just a thought that may help, Keep at it,
By the way stitching up cast iron makes a wonderful repair, if you like I could send you an article in Vintage Tractor produced in UK.
Patrick
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: Maine
Patrick, you may be entirely right. I have added more oil to the cylinders since it froze, and so far it's still stuck. Maybe I need to give it more oil. Maybe I need to give it more time. But I believe the manual says to flush the cylinders with a mix of gas and (?) kerosene after storage, removing any residual oil. I haven't taken off the front cover yet, but I'm begining to think that stuck cylinders are almost all that's left that could be holding it. It's either that or something stuck in the timing gears or oil pump, or a bearing.
What do you mean by "stitching up"?
Dan
What do you mean by "stitching up"?
Dan
- Patbretagne
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Location: Finistère Bretagne France
Stitchin up
I'll get the article on stitching cast iron copied into the compluliar tomorrow and send a copy over to you, it's the only way I've found of effectivly and strongly reparing cast iron, especially on cylinder blocks and the like, See you
Pat
Pat
- Patbretagne
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Location: Finistère Bretagne France
Stitching Up 2
If you can't read this let me know and i'll Email it to anyone interested
Pat
Pat
- George Willer
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 7013
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:36 pm
- Zip Code: 43420
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OHIO, Fremont
- Contact:
Patrick,
Stitching is a very good method for repairing cracks in water jackets, but can add no structural strength like is needed to salvage the broken front ear. Dan's repair would need great strength... if it is broken as I think it is.
Is this it, Dan?
Stitching is a very good method for repairing cracks in water jackets, but can add no structural strength like is needed to salvage the broken front ear. Dan's repair would need great strength... if it is broken as I think it is.
Is this it, Dan?
George Willer
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
http://gwill.net
The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. Ambrose Bierce
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 23701
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.
- Location: Mo, Potosi
Patrick, I would appreciate a copy. ejpuckett@centurytel.net
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
- Patbretagne
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:45 am
- Zip Code: 00000
- Location: Finistère Bretagne France
Stitching
George, Your right, for a small area under stress as you say it doesn't work, flat and larger it's good, Best wishes
Pat
Pat
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: Maine
Three months later....
George, that's not quite where the crack is, but close. The crack is just back from there about an inch around the curve. The crack bottoms out against the oil pan, rather than just off it there. If it broke all the way it would not just loose the ear, but the whole front of the engine would come open.
No matter though, BECAUSE I GOT THE OTHER ONE UNSTUCK TODAY! [Cue the Hallaluja Chorus.] Unfortunately, it does not turn all the way around, but stops with a slight thunk at one spot. [/Hallaluja Chorus] I haven't yet had time to fully investigate with lights and mirrors. I don't yet know if it does it every rotation (crank) or every other rotation (cam). But we have some sort of progress.
I achieved this small step by removing the fan and it's belt, and putting my 3' long pipe wrench with the big jaws on the pulley, and giving it a nudge. Ahhhh....
Dan
George, that's not quite where the crack is, but close. The crack is just back from there about an inch around the curve. The crack bottoms out against the oil pan, rather than just off it there. If it broke all the way it would not just loose the ear, but the whole front of the engine would come open.
No matter though, BECAUSE I GOT THE OTHER ONE UNSTUCK TODAY! [Cue the Hallaluja Chorus.] Unfortunately, it does not turn all the way around, but stops with a slight thunk at one spot. [/Hallaluja Chorus] I haven't yet had time to fully investigate with lights and mirrors. I don't yet know if it does it every rotation (crank) or every other rotation (cam). But we have some sort of progress.
I achieved this small step by removing the fan and it's belt, and putting my 3' long pipe wrench with the big jaws on the pulley, and giving it a nudge. Ahhhh....
Dan
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: Maine
What? Why?
I have the oil pan off, the plugs loose, and can hand turn the pulley now. No need to mess with blocking up the back end. When it was stuck, no amout of shoving it around while in gear seemed to help. Now I just need to carefully find out what's binding in that one spot, and that's now a matter of eyes, not force.
Dan
I have the oil pan off, the plugs loose, and can hand turn the pulley now. No need to mess with blocking up the back end. When it was stuck, no amout of shoving it around while in gear seemed to help. Now I just need to carefully find out what's binding in that one spot, and that's now a matter of eyes, not force.
Dan
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