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Getting her started again.

The Cub Club -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
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huisjen
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Getting her started again.

Postby huisjen » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:15 pm

I've successfully changed engines. That is, the "new" engine (bought on Ebay, and I'm told it used to run just fine) is attached to the bell housing and front axle, and all the accessories are re-attached. I think they're even re-attached in the right places. I can't be sure, since a few minutes ago I realized that the magneto rotates the opposite direction to the crank, despite what the manual may say. (Direct observation is a useful tool.) After changing the positions of the #3 and #2 wires on the distributor cap, I get a small "putt" out of the exhaust stack each time an exhaust valve opens. But I still haven't gotten the beastie to run.

There are, so far as I can tell, two possible causes of my troubles. First is that the old carburetor is almost certainly not up to original spec. It drips a small amount of gas after each starting attempt, and of course it's designed to plug into the air cleaner, and I don't have an air cleaner tube just yet. Still, it ran the old engine just fine. (Replacement was due to fear of the old engine breaking in half in the field due to that crack on the forward right corner near the water inlet tube. It leaked oil a bit, but the engine ran fine. Pity, really.)

The second possibility is the one I might be able to do something about: Timing. Right now I've got the timing set so that just as the one and only timing mark on the pulley comes to the pointer, the magneto goes "click". Now, I understand that timing is supposed to be 0° at low idle and advanced 16° at high idle/ working speed. I also understand that high idle is the more important mark to hit. So which one is this mark on the pulley supposed to be, 0° or 16°?

Furthermore, I found a diagram of the wiring on another web site. I've wired the generator, ammeter, and battery according to it, but it doesn't deal with the on/off switch. This tractor had been "converted" to a battery ignition system with a coil, but the new engine has a good magneto (unlike the cracked bakelite and interior rust of the magneto on the original engine), so I used it. (I've tested and I do have spark.)

As far as I can tell, the stud on the side of the magneto, at about 4:00 as viewed looking forward along the tractor, must be to ground out the magneto and kill the engine. So I wired it to the switch and took a wire on the other side of the switch to ground. Is that right?

I suppose there is yet another explanation for it not starting: I've got to burn/rub/blow out all of the schmutz and storage oil that's in the cylinders.

Dan

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Bigdog
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Postby Bigdog » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:38 pm

If the front pulley has 2 marks, the first one passing the pointer is 16 BTDC, the second is TDC. As far as the switch goes, if you are using the old switch, you need to leave the switch pushed in (normal off position) to run and pull it out to kill the engine. The switch normally used with the mag is a shorting switch which has only one connection and works just backwards from the ignition switch. You can use the one you have just remember that "OFF" is "ON" and "ON" is "OFF".
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:42 pm

And if you only have one mark, it is TDC. The magneto can be installed 180 degrees off. Note the cap has 1 marked on it, which is the #1 spark plug wire (#1 is the piston next to the radiator). Make sure the rotor passes this position just as the impulse snaps at the TDC position for #1.
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Postby George Willer » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:43 pm

Dan,

I suppose you've realized this while checking for spark, but the battery ignition switch works backward from a mag switch. It sounds like you have it wired as it should be, but remember... in for run and out for stop.

The single mark should be under the pointer for static timing at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. You could be 180 degrees off.
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Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 pm

The magneto has a 2:1 gear reduction in it. Proper rotation is clockwise whichever end you are looking at.

huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:52 pm

I'l check tomorrow if I'm 180° out. I can see how sparking at the end of the exhaust stroke won't help. I suppose I can just rotate the cap and put it right back on. I've got the slack in the plug wires.

Before my first post, I tried starting both with the switch in and out, and neither one started it. ("Oh, shoot, I've been cranking but I never hit the switch....") I had tested for spark back before I had put the wiring harness back together, so I didn't know about the switch now being backwards. Thanks, all. I'll update after I try things.

Also, this was the diagram that got me wired back up.
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Dan

huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:14 pm

I checked the #1 cylinder this morning and made sure I knew which was the compression stroke. I did have it in phase all along.

I charged the battery some more and then ran the starter a bit. I got a couple pops as one cylinder fired, so I know it's on the right track. Dear Wife, who has a very good sense of smell, reports that the bit of smoke coming out of the stack smells like uncombusted Marvel Mystery Oil.

I'll charge the battery more and try again. I think we're close to running.

Dan

huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:44 pm

I still haven't managed to get her started, but not for lack of trying. I keep charging the battery, then running it down trying to start her. Then I charge some more. Once in a while I get a "putt".

But tonight we had some success of sorts. I had been assuming that since we got gas pouring out of the carb that she was flooding and didn't need choke. I was wrong. Furthermore, she needs more choke than just choking her gives. I found myself in front of her, with my left hand reaching back to the starter and my right reaching over to fiddle with the carb. I hand choked, completely covering the intake (remember, no air cleaner tube) with my hand. I got the engine to fire repeatedly, almost reliably! Dear Wife came over and observed. She put her hand up to the stack and, well....

I received the engine without spark plugs, so I don't know what kind of crud fell into the holes before it got here. And back when I was preparing to let that engine sit over the winter, I put a dab of oil in each cylinder, and was just getting ready to put a bit of wadded up paper towel in each to keep things out when a spider dropped down from the overhead and landed on the engine. I went to brush it away, and it ran into the hole of the #2 cylinder. Then I put in my paper towel bits.

Dear wife reports, tongue in cheek I think, that she got legs, and maybe an eyeball, on her hand, along with other bits of black goo that I'm getting out of the cylinders.

All four seem to be firing regularly, if not consistantly. I think I should be getting her going tomorrow. Really. I just have to keep telling myself that...

Dan

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Postby beaconlight » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:02 pm

Dan I had trouble starting the cub in January and did the hand trick and it eventually started running by it self and the choak all the way out. Later yet it ran right. At the time I thought that it was rust or crud from the tank. Any way I towed the splitter used it and put every thing away. Went to use the cub again in Feb and same thing. Took the carb off cleared out the ice and every thing was ok. Figuring you are in Maine and i know you are North of me.

Bill
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huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:43 pm

Okay, this is bad.

I had been using hot water. I'd drain the radiator and refill with hot water, which warmed the block enough that it didn't seem to need choke. I pressed the starter and it was putting right along, not actually starting, but firing the cylinders. Smoke was coming out the stack, and the gunk in the pistons was slowly working itself out.

And then it stopped. The engine won't turn over. Not by the starter. Not by the hand crank. Not by putting it in gear and shoving. The starter just goes clunk as it tries to engage the ring gear and can't budge it. :(

Now what?

Dan

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Postby Bigdog » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:57 pm

Well, you have one shot at "not a major problem". It is possible that the starter has jammed against the ring gear. You can loosen the starter mounting bolts and wiggle the starter to dis-engage it if this has happened. If this is not the problem, you may have filled the cylinders with unburned fuel causing a hydraulic lock. Remove the spark plugs, make sure the ignition is disabled and see if you can crank it over by hand then. If this is not the problem, you have your work cut out for you. :cry:
Bigdog
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beaconlight
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Postby beaconlight » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:39 pm

Follow the BIG DOGS instructions. and it probably will work out ok.

Bill
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huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:17 pm

I have removed the spark plugs, the starter, the valve cover, and the oil pan. It's still stuck.

At least I can report that nothing in there seems to have actually broken.

For the night, I've put a few squirts of Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder. (Yeah, that's what I've been trying to burn out of each cylinder.... :evil: ) Maybe that will loosen them back up.

Dan

huisjen
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Postby huisjen » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:59 pm

So maybe someone would like to talk about what's involved in getting the old block properly welded. It seems like having a spare about might not be such a bad thing.

Dan

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Postby Jack Donovan » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:07 pm

It may be possible that the new engine had a bad head gasket , and when potting in the warm water it seeped into the cylinders and hydro locked. It also sounds as though you have some sticky valves. If its not to hard, at this point I think i would pull the head , and do some serious checking.


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