electroysis problem

[Kirk]

To All,

One would think that setting up an electroysis tank would be a simple task. But mine has me stumped.

I put mine together for the first time this week. I'm confident that everything is correct in regards to the set up. That is: using sodium carbonate (ph up)....about 2 cups to 10 gal of water, good clean connections on both -/+ leads, no neg metal touching pos metal, and I've used 2 different chargers of which both work. But I get NUTTIN'

Any tips?

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

2 questions, do you show any current flow? what type chargers are you using, standard cheapies, or the fancy electronic ones?

[Rudi]

Kirk:

Normally when I get less than 1 amp or next to nothing, means that the electrodes have accumulated so much deposits that they are not "attracting" any longer. The solution is to clean them.

However, this does not appear to be the case in the problem you have described.

Make sure that the connections are good. If you connect the positive battery clamps to each electrode - you should see a small spark as the connection is made.

Also, you should also see a small spark when the negative battery clamp is connected to the chain holding your item to be cleaned.

HOWEVER, I never connect directly to the chain, but to the bolt/hanger if used. Also make sure the chain is clean. Do not use galvanized chain. Won't work so well until all the galvanizing is removed. Use bare steel chain.

Aside from that, and aside from checking to make sure your chargers are working, I am not sure what the problem would be.

I am also assuming that you are using the old analog style charger and not a digital one? The new fangled thingy's are not as good as the older style. If you have the newer ones, go to Walmart and buy an elcheapo! That will work.

[Charles (49) Mo]

Some new chargers require a voltage feedback to have any output. That is why some won't bring a completely dead battery back to life. Check the output ( load not connected) with a voltmeter or a 12 volt bulb.

[Kirk]

First, thx for the responses, guys.

As for the questions, both of my chargers came from WM. One is an automatic 10 amp.....used to keep the boat battery charged. The other is an old charger with 10 amp or 50 amp for quick jump starts.

I haven't actually checked the voltage on them, but know they both work.

Now I'm thinking our friend Rudi may have hit on the problem.....that is, the chain. The chain I'm using is galvanized. And, I have the lead hooked directly to the chain....not a "bolt".

So I will head for the shop and switch chains and run a bolt thru a link to attach the lead to. That just has to be it.

I will let yall know.

Mucho thanks.......again.

[Russ Leggitt]

Hi Kirk,

First of all, I don't understand this "chain" business of holding or attaching.
What is it doing in the electrical connection? The only chains I have ever
seen have links which rely upon connectivity at each link. The links can
build up corrosion and therefore resistance. Why not connect the negative
lead from the charger directly to the part being cleaned. This way you
have a solid direct connection.. If it is because you think the negative
lead will corrode, it will not only the positive lead will corrode and be
eaten away. I have three that have been in almost continosus operation
for about 1 1/2 years and they are not corroded. The part and the anode
[the piece of sacrafice metal] should be about 1-2 inches apart. The
positive lead will certainly need to be outside the solution. I attach a
piece of awg no. 6 [ground wire] to the anode and bring it outside the
solution to make the connection with the positive lead. Also, on large
pieces I have made some jumpers out of scrap awg no. 12 electrical
wire with aligator clips and attachem them at 2 or 3 places over the
part to be cleaned. This discributes the charge more evenly over the
part to be cleaned [my theory] and it seems to help greatly.

Hint, the way I clean a chain or any part with multiple parts is to use
the jumper wires and connect from part to part.

You did not say what type metal your anode is. It should be steel
stainless steel works best.

Hope this helps some.

[johnbron]

I agree with Russ. I hook my black lead submerged directly to the part I am cleaning and the red lead to the sacrificial metal used. Red lead must be out of the liquid unlike the black lead which can be submerged with no problem.

[Dan England]

I also have cleaned metal with the black lead submerged with no visible effect on the submerged portion of the lead. Dan

[George Willer]

Kirk,

I don't know if this is your problem or not, but the action depends on current flow. In addition to voltage, the strength of the electrolyte is a factor. It doesn't seem to matter what the electrolyte is as long as it ionizes (so it is conductive) and is strong enough.

[Buzzard Wing]

Cannot add much to what has already been said, except that I use an electrical clamp (similar to a jumper cable clamp) to the part WITH A GOOD ELECTRICAL CONNECTION (clean metal) and connect the charger clamp to that. Mostly I do that because my other charger clamp/lead was copper and I read somwhere that that is no good to put copper in the tank.

Arm and Hammer washing soda was readily available at the smaller grocery near my house.

I also find that more anodes (rebar) are better and they pretty much need to be cleaned with a wire brush daily.

Just finished up the 'touch control' control mount (cast) and it is bubbling away on one of the pedal return springs... seems they are over $12 new! I really should put the old charger into operation on a second tank since I have a lot of small parts (nuts and bolts) that are sorely in need of cleaning.

Has anyone else noticed that that parts seem to 'flash' rust almost immediately after they are removed from the tank??

[Charles (49) Mo]

I have had good luck with small parts by heating them with a propane torch to drive off the moisture (water).

[Rudi]

Russ is correct about making sure that there is connectivity between links.

I have found that the chain is useful when dealing with heavier parts. I am not sure what he uses for a tank so it is very hard to compare.

When using a 45 gallon drum vertically for a tank, then something must be utilized to keep the part being cleaned from touching the electrodes. There is only so much room at the bottom of the tank. That is why I use a chain.

I guess though, hadn't thought about this part much, you probably could connect the negative clamp directly to the part being cleaned and immersed quite safely.

Ooops! See this is what gettin older does to you...

When I was cleaning my blade parts for the Cub-54, I connected the negative clamp directly to the part - although I just cleaned the area with my twisted wire cup brush first. I did not submerse the clamp.

Try it. Nothing to lose.

Let me know how it works.

Russ: How about some pics of your setup and maybe a narrative as well. Be nice to have say a half dozen different setups on the server so as folks sort of have options....

let me know ok

JB: same request ok -- some nice clear pics and a narrative would be useful.

[Kirk]

Well, once again the greatest forum on the planet has come through!!

After all the suggestions, I went back out and did some work on the hook-up of the leads and suspension chain and BINGO.

I know some questioned the necessity of a chain suspending the part to be cleaned.....and connecting your neg lead to a bolt which holds my chain the the suspension rod. Of course it is not "necessary". But the way I saw it, (after looking at Rudi's pics of his tank) I was going to try it his way.

I bolted the chain around the part to be cleaned and the other end was bolted to the suspension rod. I plugged her in and immediately got the action.

Thanks agian for all of your advice. I couldn't do it without you.

I just replaced the throw-out bearing and have put ole Mac back together. I'm in hopes that the clutch doesn't need replacing as well.....but it operated fine before the split. But the throw-out bearing was making a heck of a racket.

Next is a rear split "again" to see if I can find the clatter in the tranny. This "clatter" was my original post, about a year ago, of which we found a tooth missing from 2nd gear. I replaced that gear (cleaning out the entire tranny) and put it all back together. In that process, I went ahead and replaced evey seal and bearing oin the drive train with exception only to the differential.

After the reassembly.....I still have the same clatter. And it's not a little clatter, it's very noisy. Oh yeah, the clatter only comes when I'm running in 2nd & 3rd. ??

Oh well, at least it's fun to work on. And I have a bunch of helpful pro's at my diposal.

Thanks for being there for us.

[Rudi]

Kirk:

Glad to be of help. Can't take credit of course, cause without the guys on this forum, my tank would never have gotten to where it is.

Russ and JB:

I really would like pics and narratives of your setup as well as any others out there. Be interesting and also would be a nice addition to the topic on the server.

Also, another good topic in this vien would be which is the preferable "sacraficial lamb" for the tank.

I have read where both Stainless and Galvanized will emit vapours. Is this correct? And, seeing as these tanks should be used out of doors or in a well ventilated area that has something such as a squirrel cage to vent, is there any danger to the vapours?

And as the mind wanders

[Daniel H.]

Rudi,

I think I read somewhere that the used liquid from stainless is very toxic.