c2 mower questions

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c2 mower questions

Postby Michael Beck » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:20 pm

I have rotary mower that international rotary mower is the only thing still readable on the tag. After searching it looks just like the center mount mower on the c2 manual. My question is were all the c2 mowers made with the overrunning clutch? The one I have only has a belt pulley with a piece that slides over the key and inside the pulley and bolts to the pulley. Looking at the parts manual it would be part numbers 3A and 3B. Part 3B has a allen set screw to tighten against the key on the spindle shaft. There was already a small crack above set screw and while trying to remove it from the spindle I made it no longer useable. :oops: I saw a post from Buzzard Wing with a picture of the springs for the overunning clutch on the spindle but mine does not have this. Do I have something missing or was this made without the overunning clutch? If it were made without the overunning clutch would the spindle be the same for both? Guess I need to do some more searching and see if part number 3B is still available. Thanks
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:58 pm

They all had an overrunning clutch. It is a fairly simple setup compared to a Woods 42 overrunning clutch (the early ones didn't have one).

What are you using for a parts book? The reason I ask is what I have for a parts list came from a Cadet dealer (he printed it for me) and is essentially the same as what shows on the CaseIH site. And they don't use 'A' and 'B' that I have seen for parts (but do for operators manuals).

There were some other mowers sold for Cubs and we should make sure we are on the same page. Take a look at this and look at G41 (platform and spindle), right click and open in new tab or window. http://messicks.com/nhparts/Case/4281.aspx I know the drawings are nearly impossible to read, so is my copy.

I will post this and post again with some photos that may help.
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:18 pm

This is top of the spindle. Note the angles, the buttons sit in the pulley and when running sit as shown (drive against the flat), when you take power off the mower they run along the angles, retracting into the holes in the pulley. It makes a racket, but deer don't see to care much :roll:
Image

Image

The spindle shaft (top/inner portion) is keyed, but only the 'cap' uses the keyway, it has a rolled pin in it. Hard to see in the picture, but it about 2 o'clock. The pulley has a smooth bore and runs on the only thing close to shiny in the picture.

If I had to guess, they had a problem with something and used a 'fixed' pulley (the set screw?) instead of the original overrunning setup. I am not sure if it's a 'problem' that needs to be fixed or not. The reason for an overrunning clutch is to keep from 'driving' the tractor after you remove power to the mower. I don't know how much of an issue it is for a Cub?? I do know that early Woods 42 and all Woods 59's did NOT have a clutch.

I was lucky and had a spare spindle/pulley... the one on the fast hitch C-2 was pretty well rusty, can't get the buttons to budge. At any rate I do have some pictures of those spindles if it helps. Here are the pulleys, the yeller one is from the mower, the white one is what's on it now. Also, the original pulley had a grease fitting on the top.

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Michael Beck » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:20 pm

Thanks for the reply Buzzard Wing. Everything on the Messicks site looks exactly like what I have except the parts for the overrunning clutch. The parts book I was using is the one on the manual server.The 3A and 3B are not really the part number but what is listed in the drawing.I thought maybe it was something for a earlier model. The pulley on this mower does not have a place for the springs. In your top picture I am missing the piece that the springs are sitting on. I took off the cap( the piece that broke in half) and removed the pulley and all that is under it is the large nut with the two allen screws in the side of it. From all the pictures I have looked at the mower I have is identical to the C2. The blades look the same, the platform and lift angles look the same, the spindle housing looks the same and so on. Does the cap on yours bolt to the pulley also?
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:21 am

There is some space between the cap and pulley, it's not tight up against the pulley. The original pulley just sits on top the hub and will ride up some when it freewheels (ratchets, pins going up and down into the pulley). Depending on how they fixed the replacement pulley to the shaft, you may not even need it. I would guess the shaft is keyed under the bushing (#17) so they may have used a keyed pulley and you could get away with a washer in place of the cap?? Or nothing at all???

I thought I snapped a photo of the two spindles side by side. Odd, but I know the big nut with lock nuts/allen screws you are talking about and I don't see it in the parts drawing. The one I put in the mower only has one (and an empty hole) and it looks like someone used a bolt instead of an allen set screw and then cut the end off. The bearings seemed good, so I didn't disassemble it.

Even if I could see your spindle, not sure I could tell what happened. I would suspect it never got greased/lubed and something jammed/broke/seized and it broke the hub or pulley. It could even be as simple as the pins (buttons) got jammed up and ruined the holes in the pulley or something/someone just broke the pulley. The pins are what drives the spindle and that pulley is the only way it will work (with original parts) At $357 (today's price) I would guess they figured a less expensive way to fix it. Heck, that's about what the mower is worth.
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Former Member » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:51 am

The very early ones WERE NOT over running. I have one in good condition just like yours and it is available. These look almost identical to the O/R ones, and bolt up just like the woods 42.

Larry, I could bring it to VA fest so we can examine it further.

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:12 pm

I am curious now Dale, any chance you could snap a picture or two? I have 3 (electronic) versions of the manual, even one that is Danco manual (with prices, the blade bolt was $.75, now about $25. not dated) and they all describe/show an overrunning clutch. My parts list says built 1960 - 1978 so surely there could be something different. I think the oldest one I have is the fast hitch one (not shown in the Danco manual) and suspect it was delivered with the Cub, a 64. It's yellow and the others I have seen were white.

Is the pulley keyed? Just wondering how it is fixed to the spindle shaft....
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Former Member » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:31 pm

Yes it is keyed, and it is yellow. I will do my best to get a pic tomorrow.

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Michael Beck » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:42 pm

The mower I have is white and the pulley is not keyed. There is a round piece with a flange on top that has a key way for the spindle. This piece slides into the pulley and the flange has bolt holes for it to bolt to the pulley. There is also a set screw to tighten it to the key. I will try to take some pictures also. Dale, would you please take a good picture of the top of the pulley. The piece I am describing is broken on mine and I would like to see if the one on your mower looks the same. It should be bolted to the pulley and have a slot on one side. There is also a hole in it directly across from the key for the set screw. Thanks
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Former Member » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:37 pm

Here are the pics of the spindle and pulley I have

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Michael Beck » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:59 pm

Thanks for the pictures Dale. I will try to post some pictures of the one I have this weekend because it is made different.
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:45 am

Dale, that's a Woods 42.
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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Buzzard Wing » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:20 am

After talking to Michael and getting the pictures, I think we got a handle on it...

Mr. Beck's decision will be is an overrunning clutch 'necessary' (or worth the cost). Does anyone have any advise? ?

I have only mowed a little with a 'rotary mower' that didn't have an overrunning clutch (fast hitch Woods 42) and I didn't notice any 'problems'

Looks like a fairly standard keyed pulley with a hub (don't know the technical term for it). The same idea as a PTO pulley used for mowers, but keyed instead of splined. I would think that the broken hub may be available, but don't know where. The mower looks to be a good one, some side guards would be nice (I was thinking something like cut conveyor belting would work??).

Image

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Image

Image

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby Gator809 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:38 am

I honestly feel an overrun clutch is a MAJOR safety item. Without it, if your mowing, and push in the clutch, the mower has the tendency to push the tractor foward until the mower stops. If your maneuvering around a pond or a lot of trees, it can easily push you right into a tree or take you swimming.

You can get the parts for both the Woods mower or the IH mower from the dealers still. It may not be cheap to rebuild them. But very well worth it IMHO.

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Re: c2 mower questions

Postby bythepond88 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:14 pm

FWIW, I have a Woods 59 on my lo-boy, and have not noticed any tendency of the mower to "push" the tractor when I put the clutch in.
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