Voltage Regulator Woes

[ScottyG]

Ok. Thanks to Beanconlight, I've managed to troubleshoot my rebuilt generator due to a sudden lack of charging problem. The generator was not the culprit. By grounding the F term, my amps shot right up indicating a positive charge. So now, my next question is, what can possibly happen to a voltage regulator that causes it to just quit? What should I be looking for when I open it up? Corroded contacts? Fused contacts? Is it possible for something just to stick and it needs a little service or do you all think I'm probably out of luck and will need to go buy one? What is the typical history with these things?

I'm guessing that the VR is about 25-30 years old and was probably retrofitted when the previous owner switched from magneto to battery ignition.

Finally, is there something that I might have done which caused the VR to malfunction?

Thanks.

[Bigdog]

Scotty, check the contacts for burning. When you start one up that has been setting for a while, the battery voltage is low. The regulator senses this and calls for more generator output. It's not uncommon to see either contacts that have glazed over and will not allow flow. Use a burnishing tool or a piece of thin cardboard to clean the points. Works most of the time. Do not use sandpaper.

[ScottyG]

Thanks Bigdog, I'll try this and report back.

Scott

[beaconlight]

Scotty read this link
http://www.ytmag.com/articles/artint29.htm

Don't do anything till you finish reading. Then make sure that you have a good ground to the regulator. Many people don't look at a ground as using something other than a wire as the second wire but in effect that is what it is.
The article first talks about generators and the regulators. A regulator has 2 or 3 relays and of course they have contacts that can get dirty or pitted. One relay is a cut out. It prevents the battery volatge from trying to turn the generator into a motor when the engine is off. It cuts off(opens the circuit) The other relay or relays operate when the generator voltage is higher than the battery voltage. The third relay or other windings of the second one limit the amount of current that so that you dont over charge the battery or overload the generator and destroy it. The generator doesn't supply high enough voltage to charge till you are at 1/2 throttle or higher. The voltage and current regulating relays and contacts operate hundreds or thousands of times a minute. The relay windings can go bad too. When I have had regulator questions I clean the contacts with my old telco burnishing tool that retired with me. Lacking that I would use a point file. They are small very fine files. You could use a small flat jewlers file as an alternmative. Most regulators have one contact rounded and the opposing cup shaped. This makes it tough to clean the parts of each one that actually touch. How and where the reg is mounted on a cub make it difficult to reach.

You must be having quite a day Regulator and oil seals at the same time.
I have friends no too far from you in Van Etten.
Bill

[beaconlight]

Wish I could say it sweet and simple like you do BD.
I am still trying to teach so that not only is this problem solved but to build ground work that will help solve the next one.
I took that link from a previous posting of yours.
Bill

[ScottyG]

Thanks so much for your detailed response. I plan to tackle the regulator tomorrow. It's one of those things where you're excited enough to get the thing working that you just don't feel like touching it for several days when it quits on you again. I'll probably be back in the shed tomorrow though trying out your sound advice. Once I get the hood off, I can check for ground with the regulator. I tend to think that that's not it since I was very careful to clean my mounts before installation but, you never know. Secondly, I'll open the regulator cover and take a peek inside. As I'm not entirely confident in the status of my battery, Bigdog may be onto something with corroded contacts.

I just can't imagine it could be anything more serious than this since, one minute it was working great and the next nothing at all. No bump, blip or shimmy on the meter.

The engine seal... ahhh that's one of those things where, if you could, you'd kick yourself. I had the enitre tractor stipped down to the block and drive. The whole thing was up on blocks, being sandblasted and painted. The radiator was sitting nearby and I had just removed the steering housing to service the internal works. I noticed a great deal of oil underneath the fan and shrugged it off due to age. A little degreaser, paint and it'll look like brand new I told myself. Oh man.

I guess I'll be back on the board in a few months time looking for advice on how to remove the pulley from the crank shaft.

[ScottyG]

Well, you were all correct. The regulator contact was corroded over. I managed to clean it up with what I had and got the thing charging again. However, I noticed that the ammeter is bouncing all over the place. Sometimes it's charging fine, other times the needle will shoot up to about 8 amps then suddenly drop to 2 then back to 8 or 6 and then will stabilize. Sometimes it won't charge at all but when I give the VR a good rap with my knuckles, it will show a charge again.

What you all of you think? Time for a new VR?

[Bigdog]

Sounds like it's still sticking. Unless you feel comfortable dressing the points, you'll probably save yourself lots of headaches by replacing it.

[beaconlight]

Clean all the contacts. What was it you had at hand?
Do the contacts any follow? Follow is the contacts making before the end of travel either operating or releasing. If the contacts make slightly before and of travel you get a small wiping action that wipes dirt out. Dont over do it though. Contacts do wear and burn with a certain amount of arcing when they open. It may be that you need to adjust for this wear. Again dont go overboard adjusting. You could check for loose connections at the reg also. If I had nothing else I would use my wifes metal nail file. It is rough but too rough. first disconnect the battery
Bill

[beaconlight]

Did you get to look at it again? How did it go?

Bill

[ScottyG]

Beaconlight,

I looked at it again. (Third time removing the hood in two days gets pretty tedious).

I have not cleaned the contacts with a file (don't cringe BigDog) I lightly sanded with 220 grit on the surfaces. I've managed to get a charge about 60% of the time which is promising. When it quits, I have to take the handle of a screwdriver and wack the VR case until I notice a positive charge once again. I think I'll continue with this relationship until the spring when I'll just replace the regulator.

BTW, no loose connections were noted and the inside of the VR case was nice and clean. There was some pitting and scoring noted on the regulator contacts.

[beaconlight]

It will be spring before I am up that way again. I'll have to brimg my burnishaer and spring adjusting tools. 220 is probably Aluminum oxide and is not too awfully bad if you blow it out good with air afterwards. My place is in the town of Franklin. The Glen to Ithica 79 to Whitney point. Then over the hill to 88 North just past the rest stop, to the franklin exit. Not all that far. If you keep running it into the ditch you will not need a VR.

Bill

[ScottyG]

Good point. I'll have to stop noodling the thing and just concentrate on using it. I didn't refurbish it to drive around the neighborhood, ditch or no ditch!!

I actually work in/for Ithaca. We've been in Watkins for about three years and I'm still getting to know the area. When you're in the area, let me know.