Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:43 am

Rudi wrote:The pic is definitely confusing. :big shy: I will try tomorrow to get better shots..

Rick Prentice wrote:Ok, now you have me totally confused. Looking at this new pic I have below,
Image

just for starters, which letter do you consider the pressure line from the bypass block?

And, am I seeing things correct---- line A curves around behind the shifter knob and attaches at B ?

Rick


Rick, the pressure line is actually F which connects to the rear most top port via a 3/8 npt to jic male fitting, then a 90 deg jic female to male then the pressure line. G is the return to the reservoir. C comprises a 3/8 npt to jic female fitting, a jic to jic T fitting, then a 90 degree jic female to male, then to a female jic to 3/8 npt then to the male quick connect. A is the Return line from the valve which goes to to the T that connects to the front top port and A connects to that. The plumbing got a little confusing for me, but what I did was plumb it all loose then once it was in place, tightened it all up. There is not a lot of clearance between the fittiongs for the Pressure and the Return lines :roll:

Lines D and E go to the hydraulic cylinder in front for the blade.

I think I got that right .. :big say what: :big give up:


The port in the relief valve where your "B" fitting is attached, should be a through port. You should be able to look through the valve, in one side out the other. Hydraulic fluid flows through the relief valve unimpeded, but when the pressure goes above the setting on the valve it pushes the relief valve spring open and redirects (vents) the excess pressure out of the drain port and is carried back to the hydraulic reservoir.Ideally, that drain line should go back to the reservoir independently and not do double duty by being tee'd into your return line. Your pressure line "F" is correct and goes to the correct port.

I might suspect that the reason that your angle moves at twice the speed that is did previously is because you may have created a "regeneration circuit" and the flow from your return line (from the directional valve) is redirecting flow back through the relief valve cartridge and adding that flow to the flow from your pressure line "F" effectively doubling your flow back to the angle cylinder. Re-gen circuits are common in industrial applications (although done a little differently) to increase speed of an actuator with out increasing the volume of the pump. A re-gen circuit takes the fluid that is exhausted from the non energized side of a cylinder and redirects it back into the energized side of the cylinder. Normally the relief drain line is run independently to keep it from seeing back pressure which may effect its setting. With the low pressure and flow of the Cub hydraulic system, that may not be an issue.

Your tee where you are going to tap into your system to direct flow to your log splitter valve, should be between the relief valve and your power angle directional valve, just downstream of the relief valve. Or it could be installed where Rick drew the letter "B" by replacing that 90 degree JIC fitting with a tee and adding a QD in-line with your hose "F". The pressure should come from the by-pass block, through the relief and then it can be directed where ever you want it to go. You can tee into the pressure line prior to the relief providing that pressure is allowed to flow through the relief valve also. I don't want to confuse you but as long as the relief valve can sense the pressure in the line anywhere, it will open if pressure rises above the setting in the relief valve.

For your log splitter hydraulic supply you will want to have your QD's tee'd in the pressure and return lines. In your photo I see one QD in the shared drain/return line. If I understand correctly, you say that line "G" goes back to the reservoir. If that is true, it can't go to your log splitter. The drain/ return line has to always go back to the reservoir, if not you will dead head the system and something will fail (with luck, it would be the gasket again). I wish my printer / copier / scanner was working and I could draw you a diagram, but it is currently DOA.

I'm at work now and need to get busy here. I'll get back to you and try to add some more info as soon as I can.

Later, RR

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:01 am

Rudi, here's a simple diagram that won't trap the relief pressure. If you want to unhook the splitter valve during snow season, just unplug the splitter setup out of the system. Then reconnect the "out" of the plow control valve back into the return to the bypass. If you use either plow valve or splitter valve, the pump will be protected, as well as the valves(no need for a power beyond system). I didn't show the top ports on the valves going to the plow cylinder or splitter cylinder(didn't want to complicate things)just the "in" and "outs".
Image

Rick

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:45 am

Rick:

Ok.. I am now getting confused.. I am going to talk to the guru's at Princess again and see if what I have is actually correct for the prv that I have. I hope so..

I have a hard time with verbal/written instruction on subjects I am still unsure of ...... :roll: . I am definitely a visual guy. I need a drawing :lol:

The circuit seems to be doing what it supposed to do. The pressure relief valve is set about 1000psi now. Deadheading the system initially to set the pressure was enough to almost give me a heart attack.. :shock: .. but after the first few tries it got easier and then actually using the system was a joy. It really is cool. The blade moves smoothly, no burbling/cavitation at all.. which is new. The old way it worked well but always seemed hesitant .. and I got pretty hesitant with it as well especially after blowing so many gaskets.

One good thing about htis, I am learning. I am beginning to see that the dump lline from the pressure relief valve needs to be separate.



Rick:

Just saw your schematic...

Where do I dump the pressure relief valve at the tank? I am beginning to understand that the pressure relief valve return to the tank needs to be separate.. but what port on the manifold do I connect this too?

The rest of the conections between the 1st valve and 2nd valve I get. I can leave it set up with male QD's on the second valve. I think I got that straigh. But again and I guess this is where I am not understanding is the return to the tank.

Do I put in a T in say the fill port of the reservoir?

Will look for some pics. btw... it has taken me almost an hour to wrap my head around these posts... but I think I am learning.. slowly :roll: but I am learning

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:13 am

Rudi, in my drawing, the relief line just dumps into the fill plug on the TC reservoir, That's the safest place to dump it and not worry about any trapped fluid. You should notice when you use your TC for lifting your blade up and down, a wiggle or movement (actually pressure)in all your lines running from the bypass block to and from the plow control valve. That's because your TC unit is technically also a control valve. This also means when you have your splitter valve hooked up, you technically have 3 control valves total. From the pump, the plow control valve will be number 1, splitter number 2, and TC number 3. If you use control valve number 3(TC), pressure is felt flowing through all the "in"/"out" lines in the previous control valves numbers 1 and 2. If you use the control valve number 2, all the "in"/"out" lines in number 1 will have pressure. If you don't use any control valves, technically the fluid is just circulating in a big loop back to the pump.

Yes, you could probably plumb the relief line into the return pressure line back to the bypass block, but if you use the T/C lever at the same time you angle and bottom out the angled blade, that'll trap the relief pressure again, and you don't want that.

I know I probably confused you again, sorry,
Rick

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:24 am

Rick:

Actually you didn't confuse me more. It really makes sense and in a form I can understand. I keep forgetting that the TC itself is also a control valve.. sort of slips your mind when dealing with externals.. but you are correct and I get it :{_}:

So what I am going to do is go get a Sked 40 1/2" T and reduce it down to 3/8" NPT and add the JIC fitting .. that should solve the problems right :?:

I look at it this way.. it is a learning experience and now I am going to have a few extra parts for my future hydraulic projects :lol:

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:40 am

Looks like Rick has you covered.

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07 pm

Rudi, if you plumb the relief port similar to my sketch, you can even get by with a couple barb fittings and regular hose for transmissions. It doesn't have to be high pressure, it's just releasing fluid back into the TC reservoir. That might save you some pennys. IH 1000 loaders also just use regular hose to plumb into the reservoir.

Rick

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:24 pm

Rick:

There are some places where it just doesn't pay to chintze on the parts. It hasn't cost me a lot yet, and amything I have purchased that becomes surplus to the needs of the current project will be utilized on the next hydraulic project which is simply an extension of this one. I went and got the needed parts today whilst doing my appointments and such. So tomorrow I will probably replumb those aspects of the system, take some more pics and give it a shot. After I get this done I will probably go get some replacement lines to clean it all up so that it is neater than it is at the moment. I wish I could do metal lines.. but that is too far beyond me at this point in time. Hose will have to do :wink: :D

Hmmm did I just say that :big what: .... :big shy: :lol:

Thanks to you and Rick, I got this and I think I understand it. We shall see.

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:31 pm

I can tell you the steel lines look good, but boy are they a pain to make. You talk about time consuming :shock: After I made this setup for Chuck Melburg, I decided I didn't have the room or time to make any more :D
Chuck's setup has lines either out the front or rear, whichever he chooses. The lines are the heavy duty hydraulic tubing too, so it was a bare to bend without any kinks.
Image
Image

Re: More Seat Time

Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:30 pm

Rick:

That has to be the most elegant hydraulic setup on a Cub. Absolutely gorgeous. Not many setups like that at all.. maybe one more :?: This is really nice especially for hooking up the blade in the belly position or other rear mounted hydraulic powered implements. The valve that was used in that application looks like an IHCC square bodied Cessna Eaton. Is that right :?: I have two each of both the more smoothly rounded style and the rectangular style :?: Also, is this the setup that you used one of those 1000pse preset pressure relief valves on :?:

These hydraulic projects while very complicated and originally totally beyond my ken, have proven to be some of the most interesting and fulfilling projects I have taken on. The need to learn a whole new discipline from scratch.. and actually be able to work with the systems.. is really a blast. Scary at times, disconcerting when facing concepts totally unfamiliar and wholly disheartening when it blows up in your face. Yet, when it does work. and then that light bulb moment arrives.. it really is quite fulfilling. Could not have done it without you and Rick helping along the way with your wonderful breadth of knowledge between you both. Amazing and highly satisfying. I literally could not have done it without you both :!:

Re: More Seat Time

Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:24 pm

Looks like I am going to get some more seat time tomorrow. Been a sick day today... and I watched the snow fall. I guess we probably got 6 inches total, but it was kinda moist snow not really fluffy so it has compacted to about 3 or 4 inches. I finished replumbing the hydraulics, so tomorrow Ellie will get a bit of a workout :{_}:

More pics tomorrow hopefuly.