Checking timing

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Re: Checking timing

Postby Pony Master » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:41 pm

Rudi, If your governor is out of time, that will have to be fixed first. If your governor is timed correctly, then you have to get the number one piston to TDC. Install your mag with the rotor pointing to #1 plug wire. Then crank the motor over 2 revolutions and stop with the pointer at the timing mark. Then pull the top of the mag away from the motor just until it snaps. Occording to IH that mag is officially timed! I have done that, but I want to stick a timing light on it and make sure that is not the problem.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Rudi » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:21 pm

Chad:

It was timed, but we knew that the governor was off by one tooth. Retimed it.. seemed close.. but no cigar. Re-timed it and it was still no cigar. Since I have to take the head off.... I was wondering if watching for #1 to come up with the head off, it that would be a good idea? Sounds good to me, but I ain't no mechanic.. well at least not yet :!: :roll: :wink: :D
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Pony Master » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:39 pm

You can use that to double check that the timing mark on the pulley is in the right spot. As long as the timing mark is at the pointer when at TDC, you should be fine.
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1956 Cub Loboy w/FH and 194
1960 Cub Loboy w/FH and L-54
1953 Super A, 2 seater B, Avery V, Avery A, JD M, MH Pony, Leader D, Allis Chalmers C, and my Great Grandpa's ZA Minneapolis Moline.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Rick Spivey » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:51 pm

Chad,

Check that your rotor pinion isn't so worn that it allows the rotor to become "out of time". Sometimes that is the culprit with hard starting.....
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Bigdog » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:52 pm

Rudi - the mag is driven by the governor. As Chad mentioned, if the governor is out of time the mag can never be in time. You need to get the governor in time with the engine first then you can time the mag to the governor.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Rudi » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:33 pm

Hmmmm...

I guess this is a case of your brain sees what it wants to see... and maybe I didn't quite explain my self. My brain tells me that this was clear, but on 3rd blush, I guess it was kinda obscure. :big give up:

Rudi wrote:When I take Ellie's head off to be replaced with the yaller one from Md... would it be a good idea for me to loosen the mag and roll back to the block, then when the head comes off, watch for number 1 to piston to come up to the top of the stroke... and would that then be in time?

I had to take the governor off and it was 1 tooth off... so now it is out of time again.. and I messed it up trying to get it back..

Would this approach work?


The operative word there is "was"

I really meant to say that, the governor was one tooth off, but when I had to redo the governor, I realigned the dots, so that the governor was timed correctly. Once I did that, the mag was no longer timed correctly and that I needed to retime it. :oops: :roll: :? No wonder the answers are a bit on the differnt side. Playing with the mag I messed up the timing and now have to redo the re-time sequence.

I( think I get the basics.. but when it comes to theoretical stuff, my descriptive powers lately seem to be lacking.... :big what: What I am curious about is.. I have to take Elllie's head off to replace the cracked one with an uncracked one. While I am in there, I was thinking that I could easily get to TDC and retime the mag while the head was off by looking at the cylinder as it comes toward TDC.

Would this be an accurate way of re-timing now that my governor is timed proper and the rotor has been set up right? Remember we are dealing here with a NON-MECHANIC ok.. It might sound like a stoopid question, but I am trying to wrap my head around this stuff and get it right finally.

I hope at least... :big shy:
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Bigdog » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:55 am

Rudi - now that the fog has cleared - yes. You can accurately find tdc and set your timing with the method you cited. Sorry for confusing your confusion with my confusion.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Eugene » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:38 am

I realigned the dots, so that the governor was timed correctly.

I have to take Elllie's head off. I was thinking that I could easily get to TDC and retime the mag while the head was off by looking at the cylinder as it comes toward TDC.

Would this be an accurate way of re-timing now that my governor is timed proper and the rotor has been set up right?
Rudi. You are over thinking the problem. With the head off, rotate the engine until the #1 piston is coming up and both valves are closed - then look at the TDC mark on the pulley and the pointer. When the TDC mark and pointer align you are at TDC.

Use the TDC mark and pointer. Because there is about 15 degrees of crankshaft rotation that the piston remains at the top of it's stroke.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Rudi » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am

Thanks guys, it is beginning to be a lot less muddy around me brain... :big give up: :big smile:
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Re: Checking timing

Postby SundaySailor » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:21 am

Ok. Could we back up just a little bit? I have a distributor for my Cub. The engine is getting ready to go into the machine shop for a rebuild, so....

How do you set the timing for the Governor, and then for the distributor? Sorry to hijack this thread, but I thought this might be a good place to start.

Thanks!
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Bigdog » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:43 am

Rick - if you go to the GS-1411 service manual and check out section 2 - the fuel system - starting on page 12 it gives a description of the governor operation and assembly. When the governor is re-assembled to the engine you align the timing marks on the drive. That gets the governor timed to the engine. Then when assembling the distributor it is aligned to the governor drive and you are good to go. It is described in the manual:

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... index.html
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Pony Master » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:44 am

Yes, you will have to have the governor in time before you time the dist. There are timing marks on the drive gear and the governor gear. They need to be matched up. Then timing the distributor is a snap. You get the #1 piston to top dead center. Then install the dist. with the rotor pointing in the directon of the #1 plug wire. You want the points just starting to open when the piston is at TDC.
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1954 Cub w/FH, IH100, 194, F11
1956 Cub Loboy w/FH and 194
1960 Cub Loboy w/FH and L-54
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Re: Checking timing

Postby SundaySailor » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:48 am

Thanks Bigdog and Ponymaster. With all the reading I'm doing ahead of time, this is going to be fun once the engine is back. I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait to hear that thing purr again.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby Eugene » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:50 am

I have a distributor for my Cub. The engine is getting ready to go into the machine shop for a rebuild, so.... How do you set the timing for the Governor, and then for the distributor?
Governor. 2 methods.

1st method. Provide the machine shop with the governor. Have him/it install the governor.

2nd method. Tell the machine shop not to install the seal on the magneto/distributor side of the governor. Then read pages 1-40 thru 1-43 for the GSS-1411 Service Manual for instructions with photos.

Distributor installation instruction provided on page 1-42 and 1-43 of the sevice manual.

Sorry about providing the reference rather than providing an explaination.
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Re: Checking timing

Postby SundaySailor » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:03 pm

Thanks Eugene. I hadn't thought about that option. I'll check into it for sure.
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