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bob in CT
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Postby bob in CT » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:45 pm

Wow. I don't know where to start.

First, I have to disclose that I work for a company that manufactures hydrogen generators. Virtually all of the equipment we have sold has been for industry or laboratories where the transportation or storage of hydrogen was not desirable. The market determines what works and what does not except for subsidies (ethanol).

Second, hydrogen is NOT an energy source. It is an energy carrier. Hydrogen does not occur in the free state on this planet even though it is the most abundant element. It has to be manufactured and it is expensive to do so. Otherwise we would be using it.

There is little doubt in any logical mind that hydrocarbons are a finite resource. If you have seen the staggering growth in India and China, as I have, it is pretty clear that the future will have another couple of billion people that want the same oil and gas that we want. When you look around and see that the plastics, fabrics, shampoo, fertilizers, and on and on all come from petrochemicals you realize how important the resources are to modern society and how much will change when supplies tighten. It is almost a crime to waste. Future generations will consider it the great folly of our era.

Nuclear. I agree that we will probably be saved by nuclear, hopefully by fusion. I have supplied some equipment for the fusion development project that has (not enough) worldwide funding and is in Europe. What is the solution for transportation? Hydrogen. Either through electrolysis or some other technology. Hydrogen can be a very dense energy carrier. This is why fuel cells are used for space missions because the batteries are too heavy to lift. Electric cars have a short range on batteries and the wires would be a tripping hazard for those of us that still like to walk. :lol: :wink: so another solution is required. Hydrogen produced from nuclear power on-site could be the way to extend the range of vehicles. They are even talking seriously about hydrogen fuel for aircraft. This would free up a lot of oil for the petrochemical industry as supplies dwindle.

Nothing will change significantly for perhaps 50 years except for the price of oil. Recent energy policies that have encouraged domestic drilling and extraction have advanced the technology of drilling so future finds are a certainty, but it also means that we will likely be the first major industrial country to run out of oil first. We better be ready. I'll be gone by then but I hope what I am doing today will be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

We will probably see fork trucks start using hydrogen and fuel cells fairly soon. Solves the problem of CO from propane trucks and solves the problem of the long recharge time on electric trucks that take them out of service. The fuel cell stacks are looking much better and I actually think they have a chance. The economics of $4 a gallon gas will change a lot of things in our lives. Innovation can come from the most unexpected places. The president of IBM once said there was a market for for something like 5 computers. That is pretty close to the market for hydrogen cars today. One for each company. When the oil is too precious to use for joyriding, people and markets will be willing to make other choices.

Bob
Last edited by bob in CT on Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JimT
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Postby JimT » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:45 pm

Rick(billyandmillie) wrote:I, for one, have a slightly different outlook about this cub. Sure there may be those who criticize and laugh, but I give the guy credit for at least trying. Now we have some idea of what the project results are. I still remember a couple items I built that had all kinds of negitive feedback, the backhoe for one. There were those who said the finals would break in short order, and those who said the cub engine wouldn't have enough power to do squat. I have another project in the works that many will have negitive comments about, again, and that's ok. At least we'll know if it works or not :D :D and I have fun in the process :wink:

I applaud John Howe for making it :D :D :D

Rick


Those who try something new are glad they did, and those who don't always look back and wish they had.

When Buttercub is done I am going to try a High-Crop cub cadet just for the fun of it.
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2cubs2cases
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Postby 2cubs2cases » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:56 pm

A good friend of mine installs hydrogen generators on trucks and buses. The fuel savings and emissions reductions are impressive.
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junkman1946
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Postby junkman1946 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:08 pm

I met this gentleman and saw that tractor up close three yrs. ago at the Fryeburg (Me.) Fair. If memory seves me right the batteries are on the blind side of the tractor as shown in the picture. He said he realized the tractor was short on battery longevity, but his qoute was "you got to start somewhere". While plowing if he lost electric power he would just start up the engine, and the solar panels became a sunshade. Frank
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Don McCombs
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Postby Don McCombs » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:14 pm

Rick, Bob and Jim are right on target. Only through innovation comes advancement. Remember the days of those stupid looking experimental electric cars? Have you looked at today's hybrids? Don't forget that there was a time when internal combustion powered motorcars were thought to be a passing fad.
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Rick Prentice
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Postby Rick Prentice » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:16 pm

He said he realized the tractor was short on battery longevity, but his qoute was "you got to start somewhere".
Thanks Frank. That sounds like the quote of the day that we need to remember :D :D

Rick

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Postby Boss Hog » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:19 pm

Don McCombs wrote:Rick, Bob and Jim are right on target. Only through innovation comes advancement. Remember the days of those stupid looking experimental electric cars? Have you looked at today's hybrids? Don't forget that there was a time when internal combustion powered motorcars were thought to be a passing fad.

I am with you on this Don
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Postby George Willer » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:31 pm

Does anyone remember Elmer Gantry?
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Rick Prentice
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Postby Rick Prentice » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:43 pm

Elmer Gantry is a 1927 novel by Sinclair Lewis. It tells the story of a young, narcisistic, womanizing college athlete who, upon realizing the power, prestige, and easy money that being an evangelical preacher can bring, pursues his "religious" ambitions with relish, contributing to the downfall, even death, of key people around him as the years pass. Although he continues to womanize, is often exposed as a fraud, and frequently faces a complete downfall, Gantry is never fully discredited and always manages to emerge triumphant and to reach ever greater heights of social status. The novel ends as the Rev. Gantry prays for the USA to be a "moral nation" and simultaneously admires the legs of a new choir singer.


I'm trying to figure out your point, George :shock:

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bob in CT
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Postby bob in CT » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:45 pm

I remember learning that they wanted to string up Sinclair Lewis for writing the book.

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George Willer
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Postby George Willer » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:05 pm

Rick(billyandmillie) wrote:
I'm trying to figure out your point, George :shock:


Well then, try Harold Hill!
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Eugene
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Postby Eugene » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:43 pm

I got the point George. Reminds me of the current hot topic to save the world.

It's going to take a different source of power for agriculture and heavy construction other than solar and or battery electric power. To many limitations to operate battery powered heavy equipment 24 hours a day for weeks or years on end.

Perhaps in the future.

Good conversation though. Different opinions and points to consider.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Postby Rudi » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:07 pm

Rick:

I actually agree with you wholeheartedly. Whether or not this Solar Powered Cub makes sense economically or not, the challenge is in the doing, not in the practicality.

What would our world be like if Orville and Wilbur Wright had not shaken off all of the naysayers that said "If God had wanted man to fly he would have given us wings" or "that will never get off the ground".

Gotta give the man kudos for trying, and that is what it is all about.

As for trying to say this is an economically or environmentally viable conversion.. Nah... don't think so. A lot of different fuel sources have been tried, some very ingenious especially during the war years on both sides of the big pond and the channel.. very inventive.. but kind of funny that everybody has gone back to gas/diesel.... for the moment that is where we are at.

But, Hey John :applause: Good Job playing.. nice idea.. someday it may be viable, but not right now.. :idea: :!: :D
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Postby BigBill » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:54 am

Think about it when the gas finally dries up we will run our engines on something we can drink too "alcohol" right? Or Corn liquor the boys will the stills will be in the $$ then right....till the politicians buy into it.

If they can power the shuttles with solar power so why can't each of our houses use the same setup? Lets tap that big yellow power source in the sky..........
Last edited by BigBill on Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Postby Jim Becker » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:01 am

I 've got no problem with somebody experimenting with anything he wants to (unless it blows up too close to me). What I don't like is that every story about this thing makes it sound like he has built a practical tractor that runs off the solar panel. I don't know whether he is promoting it (and himself) that way or if it just happened that everyone that did a story on it came to that conclusion on their own.

It is like the difference between painting a Cub white and trying to sell a white non-demo as a demonstrator. Somewhere along the line, they both became frauds.


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