Safety/Deadman Switch

[Bigdog]

You could replace one of the round knockouts in the dash panel with a fiberglas disc.

[Eugene]

Mercury tilt switch in series with the coil and points.

Seat switches similiar to lawn tractors.

Big problem with the standard Cub is getting out from under the steering wheel if the tractor starts to tip over.

Eugene

[Jim Becker]

Keep it simple. Tie the other end of the lanyard to the coil's high tension wire.

[VinceD]

Brian, I really like your project. We have a lot of hills here in the Ozarks and such a safety system would really be a good idea.

Have you thought about using mercury switches that would open/close based on the side-to-side tilt of the tractor? They could activate a warning light or sound to let the driver know a near tilt situation exists. The problem with turning the engine off is sometimes you need the power to maneuver out of a dangerous situation.

The major problem I see with manual over-ride switches is we tend not to turn them back on after we turn them off. Human nature.

Keep us all informed as I think a lot of folks would be interested in your final design.

[FCUBMAN]

Keep it simple. Tie the other end of the lanyard to the coil's high tension wire.

Gotta love it - it would work, too - but just imagine the thrill when the lanyard got wet in the rain or snow

[FCUBMAN]

Brian, I really like your project. We have a lot of hills here in the Ozarks and such a safety system would really be a good idea.

Have you thought about using mercury switches that would open/close based on the side-to-side tilt of the tractor? They could activate a warning light or sound to let the driver know a near tilt situation exists. The problem with turning the engine off is sometimes you need the power to maneuver out of a dangerous situation.

The major problem I see with manual over-ride switches is we tend not to turn them back on after we turn them off. Human nature.

Keep us all informed as I think a lot of folks would be interested in your final design.

My original thought was to stop the engine immediately if I either fell off or rolled the tractor. A lot of good ideas have cropped up in the discussion. Your idea of a tilt warning is a good example. I wonder if we could safely determine how far a Cub could tilt before tipping? That would depend on tire size, terrain, width of tire spacing, but there should be some generic info available. Then the mercury switches could be installed at an appropriate angle to give a warning.
I would only want the power cut if I fell off or rolled it, which means the lanyard idea would work.
I agree with the manual override and human nature, but we all make a decision every day on whether or not to use our seat belts - and I always use mine, having had their worth proven to me.
My Simplicity has a switch in the seat, and one on the brakes. You cannot get off the seat and keep the enging running unless the parking brake is on. I like that idea because it requires no action to take effect - it's always active. You leave the seat without the brakes on, the engine dies. No overrides, nothing to hook up, no "easy" way to cheat on it. I'm now thinking about a switch mounted near the bottom of the seat tube that would open the ignition circuit when the seat pops up, with a switch at the brake pedals that would bypass the seat switch if the brakes were on. The Simplicity idea works, and why re-invent the wheel? I need to find some weatherproof, small switches, and find a way to discreetly wire them in. I could also wire a switch to the PTO lever, so that the tractor won't start with the PTO on. And, I could wire a switch to the clutch so that the starter won't work unless the clutch is in, like a car. This could get out of hand I'm not real big on the "original Cub look", but I don't want it to look like an amateur hack job, either
Enough for now, it's late, and my eyes are slamming shut - hope this all makes sense!
Brian

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

Brian, yes it all makes sense, but we also have to remember paying attention, and common sense are the best things we have to prevent accidents. Lawnmower, tractor, and car/truck manufactures have been trying for years to engineer against operator stupidity with only limited success. A classic example was a man in his 60s that had a riding lawnmower he was wanting to mow crossways on a slope with, but the seat safety switch kept shutting it down. His solution was to walk beside it and hold the seat down with one hand while mowing the slope

[beaconlight]

Amen to what John says. These so called safety switches only cause people to feel safe taking things to the edge. The false security to do something that is foolish is just that, foolish and OCCASSIONALLY FATAL. (that was not a typo). Think ahead. Don't tempt fate. There is a saying " Don't mess with a bull. You could get a horn in the ash" They still have the running of the bulls and guess what? Not only that but the media has the nerve to be suprised. I cut a 1200 foot steep bank on my farm pond. I ride on the top with a tag along mower on the end of a chain. My cub cycle bar is too short to reach all theway up and down. It is too steep to run up and down. Going down the tires would skid with low throttle. Going up you are at such a steep angle that having the front come all the way over on top is an issue if you could get enough traction to go up. Yes the PO of the property had a Massey 35 but with a 9 foot cycle bar. There were spots Jim couldn't reach too. Suicide is quicker and probably less painful with a gun than I imagine it to be with a roll over. Disconnect the PTO when you stop also.
Trying to protect a fool is foolish. He will find a way around the protection.

Bill

Bill

[beaconlight]

Hope I didn't sounf too harsh on my last post but I feel so strongly that safety is too important to be lulled into a false sense of security. Yes safety switches and engine cutoffs save us from our selves at times. I agree on that. Yet I feel many of the situations could have been avoided in the first place. There are others where, other than not being in the situation in the first place would prevent disaster. Sort of like you are walking along and get hit by yellow ice.
Bill

[kinelbor]

I think having an up/down safety switch would work great to prevent flipping a tractor back. I came close once with my MH 333, the front wheels got about 3 feet off the ground before I could stomp the clutch. If there was a mercury switch or whatever that killed the engine at a certain degree that would probably prevent that problem.

[Bigdog]

Safety devices are great. But they are not foolproof. In the case of the mercury switches - it's quite possible that once the switch broke the circuit and the engine started to die, the tractor would start to drop down and re-activate the circuit before the engine was completely dead.
Other methods also have weaknesses.

The best safety device there is: The nut behind the steering wheel!

[George Willer]

I think having an up/down safety switch would work great to prevent flipping a tractor back. I came close once with my MH 333, the front wheels got about 3 feet off the ground before I could stomp the clutch. If there was a mercury switch or whatever that killed the engine at a certain degree that would probably prevent that problem.

Nik,

It's an imaginative solution but may only give a false sense of security. By the time the switch activated the flywheel would have enough stored energy to complete the flip unless the engine were running very slowly.

Back flips are the worst kind and are usually fatal because they happen so quickly. They only require far less time than it takes for a rear wheel to make 1/8 to 1/4 revolution.

Good operator discretion is the best prevention.

[evielboweviel]

I agree with Big Dog and George a 100%
Ron

[Peter Person]

I just had to add my .02 worth (to quote Rick).
This thread brought to mind the movie Cars that we just watched as a family. (yea, we're to cheap to see it in the theater, so we see it 6 mos later)
I betcha these guys wish they had something to prevent tipping over.


Just loading and unloading my Cub on the trailer is enough to increase the heart rate at times.
Peter

[wvpolekat]

The only thing that a mercury switch for either roll or yaw will do is irritate the user enough to disable it.

If you hook to the drawbar properly, its near impossible to flip it backwards. That leaves us with the situation of going up a hill/ramp. In that case, if you are the least bit concerned, back up it. As others have said, the operator is the key.

Someone does make a tilt gauge that someone could use to judge if the tractor is in danger of a rollover. But, I suspect that many rollovers are more from the tractor hitting a hole, catching something or a sudden operator action more than the slope they are operating on. Over on tractorbynet, the little gauges have quite a following.

I would caution that any such device would cause an operator to think that everything was hunky dory because they haven't killed the tractor.

A legitimate device may be one that kills the engine if the PTO is engaged and operator is off the seat, which would be a simple matter of 2 switches in series, one at the PTO lever, one at the seat. But, this would interfere with some legitimate operation of the tractor and be quickly disabled as well by some.

The only effective safety related kill switch would be one that encourages proper operation of the tractor without limiting usability. Something along the lines of parking brake on when operator is off the seat falls into this category, as does a neutral/clutch starter interlock. Both of these allow you to use the tractor in any designed role and protects you from common, absent minded lapses.

One of the big risks of safety devices that kill the tractor is that it takes control away from the operator.

Most of these devices could be setup in a warning scenario where a buzzer sounds or something to warn the operator of a possibly unsafe condition/angle/etc. Perhaps another coil that gives the operator a "tingle" via the seat