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52R Cub Engine--I'VE HAD IT!!!

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Super A
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52R Cub Engine--I'VE HAD IT!!!

Postby Super A » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:37 pm

Well I got my combine engine all back together, had lotsa spark, nicely lapped valves, thought I was ready to go. Still got nothing. I know there is some combustion going on, as it spit back through the carb intake, and set the little puddle of gas that inevitably seems to come out when you choke it ablaze..... :shock: Once I stomped that out, I decided that was nature's way of telling me it's time to call in someone with more knowledge and skill than me. We have two really good tractor mechanics close by that we often hire for repairs on our bigger stuff, and I will give them a call after the first of the year and whoever can take it in first will get to figure it out. I suspect the carb needs a rebuild, I may check my plug wires one more time to make sure they're timed right, but the way I feel now, that's going to be someone else's problem. :x I may also check into adding a starter and a ring gear too....

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

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Brandon Webb
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Postby Brandon Webb » Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:40 pm

Sounds like a timing problem. Leave it alone for a day or two, you might need a break. :D Brandon.

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Postby Eugene » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:54 pm

I'm with Brandon. Ignition timing problem. Probably 180 degrees out of time.

Take a break. Recheck the ignition timing.

Eugene

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Postby George Willer » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:26 pm

Al,

Take a break! I think it's been at least 3 years since I've tried to help you get it running on ATIS, and we finally got the head off and found part of the problem. I know it's exasperating, but it really isn't the engine's fault. Stick with it when you're calmer and you'll learn something! :twisted:
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Super A
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Postby Super A » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:58 pm

George Willer wrote:Al,

Take a break! I think it's been at least 3 years since I've tried to help you get it running on ATIS, and we finally got the head off and found part of the problem. I know it's exasperating, but it really isn't the engine's fault. Stick with it when you're calmer and you'll learn something! :twisted:


George, the reason it's taken three years to get the head off is because I have had to take a "break" after every time I tried to work on it! :roll: My other one spoiled me. Cleaning out the gas tank and cleaning up the points was all it took to get it going and it had sat longer than this one did. I hope that had nothing to do with the make of engines.......

I am going to re-check the timing tomorrow, it's entirely possible I have the plug wires out of sequence. If that doesn't work, I'm washing my hands.

Al
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Postby Jack Donovan » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:07 pm

Yep, sounds like timming to me also, Like Gw say's Just think how rewarding it will be when you finaly geter done on your own. Jack :D

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Don't give up

Postby BackswampCub » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:46 am

I think it is probably something simple like the timing or the wires like you mentioned. It seems the most frustrating problems seem to be the simplest thing. But if it still gives you problems. Try Terry Baker. Just on the other side of Beulaville. I got my Cub from him and it runs like a top. He had just finished one before that included a complete engine redo. Also try touching base with someone experienced close by. I run into two Brothers at the Wayne County Impl Auction. They have had or dealt with Cubs there whole lives. The only Cub at Mikes show. Belonged to one of them. They might be able to come out and take a look. The Auction should be on Tuesday the 2nd
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Postby Joe Howard » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:32 am

Super A; First and foremost, DO NOT GIVE UP ON THAT ENGINE!!! I have one here that is identical to yours and went thru the same grief you're going thru. I finally got my arms around my problem when I took the valve STEM access cover off (the one behind the manifold) and certified (1) that the timing was correct by making sure #1 was at TDC in the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke and (2) that the valves were opening and closing. THAT turned out to be my problem; the engine had set up for 15 years and the springs were weak and two valves out of 8 were not closing (the cam will open them but the springs have to close them) That resolved, it started up slick as snot and runs like a charm. If you're using a crank, see if someone won't loan you a starter for an hour or so, thats a lot easier than cranking with a hand crank. I have a starter which I never use, problem is getting it to you. Post your results. JH
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Postby George Willer » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:31 am

Joe Howard wrote:Super A; First and foremost, DO NOT GIVE UP ON THAT ENGINE!!! I have one here that is identical to yours and went thru the same grief you're going thru. I finally got my arms around my problem when I took the valve STEM access cover off (the one behind the manifold) and certified (1) that the timing was correct by making sure #1 was at TDC in the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke and (2) that the valves were opening and closing. THAT turned out to be my problem; the engine had set up for 15 years and the springs were weak and two valves out of 8 were not closing (the cam will open them but the springs have to close them) That resolved, it started up slick as snot and runs like a charm. If you're using a crank, see if someone won't loan you a starter for an hour or so, thats a lot easier than cranking with a hand crank. I have a starter which I never use, problem is getting it to you. Post your results. JH


Joe,

That assumes the flywheel has a ring gear. Many, if not most power unit engines do not. :(

I sure wish Al were closer... I'd come get that !#$%^ engine off his hands and remove that thorn from his side. :lol: I'd have it running very quickly, as most of us would. It only requires finding the problem (or problems) and fixing it. Getting mad at it won't help.

Maybe it's time for Al to call the "engine whisperer"?
George Willer
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Super A
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Tractors Owned: Collector of Super As, Corn Pickers, and a buncha other junk. Even a Cub now and then...
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Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Postby Super A » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:41 am

George Willer wrote:
Joe Howard wrote:Super A; First and foremost, DO NOT GIVE UP ON THAT ENGINE!!! I have one here that is identical to yours and went thru the same grief you're going thru. I finally got my arms around my problem when I took the valve STEM access cover off (the one behind the manifold) and certified (1) that the timing was correct by making sure #1 was at TDC in the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke and (2) that the valves were opening and closing. THAT turned out to be my problem; the engine had set up for 15 years and the springs were weak and two valves out of 8 were not closing (the cam will open them but the springs have to close them) That resolved, it started up slick as snot and runs like a charm. If you're using a crank, see if someone won't loan you a starter for an hour or so, thats a lot easier than cranking with a hand crank. I have a starter which I never use, problem is getting it to you. Post your results. JH


Joe,

That assumes the flywheel has a ring gear. Many, if not most power unit engines do not. :(

I sure wish Al were closer... I'd come get that !#$%^ engine off his hands and remove that thorn from his side. :lol: I'd have it running very quickly, as most of us would. It only requires finding the problem (or problems) and fixing it. Getting mad at it won't help.

Maybe it's time for Al to call the "engine whisperer"?


Well, I went back to it this morning, checked the timing, and sure 'nuff it's 180 degress off. #4 on the magneto cap is really #1. I am guessing someone mis-installed the magneto at some point. I have managed to get it to fire a couple times but it still won't give up and run. One pull of the crank will get close to a teaspoon of gas running out the carb intake with the choke closed. I have checked the plugs, and can't smell gas on them. So I think there's a carb problem, probably from setting up so long. I have to help out my dad a little on the farm this afternoon, but if I have time I will check the compression again to make sure. In my zeal to put it back together after lapping the valves, I didn't test it before I treid to start it again.

George, I certainly do wish you or some of the others more skilled than I were closer by so you could see it in person and help me figure it out. I can't say I'm really mad with the silly thing, I have just realized I have "hit the wall" skill-wise, and need some help. If this combine was a "run of the mill" 52R the choice would be easy, I have a spare pto driveline handy from another combine and I would slap this engine on Ebay and probably make enough to pay for the combine......but the serial number on the power unit is 580, which I think means it's a fairly early one equipped with Cub power, so I just hate to get rid of it.

Joe, the power unit does not have a ring gear. I wish it did. :cry: Got three blisters on my hands right now, even with gloves. Electric starting was an option on the Cub power unit used on the later #64 combine, which replaced the 52R.

Anyway, hopefully I can get someone in to look at it next week. One mechanic we hire quite a bit makes "house calls" so I hope he will come out rather than me take the engine to him. He works on everything-from riding mowers to 200 HP tractors. Y'all can call me a quitter if you want to, but I'm more interested in the big picture right now, which for me is getting this critter running so I can cut wheat in June! :D

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022

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Postby Eugene » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:00 pm

Check the magneto timing. You will need a battery and timing light.

Set the magneto timing so that the igniton fires just after TDC. (A bit retarded.)

Or set the pully timing mark just after the mark on the pulley (retarded). Then use the static magneto timing procedure to set the ignition timing.

Blisters. Wear leather gloves.

Sounds like you are getting really close.

Hang in there.

Eugene

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Postby Jim Becker » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:05 pm

Make starting it an FFA field trip. One of them will figure it out.

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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:11 pm

Al, bring it to the Wodoson Ridge Cubfest (Oxford, MS) in May, and I will haul it home form there so it won't frustrate you anymore. Or bring it and we will try to get it going for you.
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Postby Joe Howard » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:17 am

George, Super A; You're as right as rain, you'd need a ring gear. My unit came off a '52 IH "64" combine, the 64 referring to the cut width I would assume. It has the ring gear, altho it never had a starter, just a blank over the opening. Poignently (sp?) one of those engines went at an auction sale between Grand Rapids and Battle Creek a couple years ago for $90. I had sent my son to buy a John Deere (which we got) and he bid on the engine but didn't know how high I'd have wanted him to go and at the time I was out of reach by his phone so he stopped!! I was sick!! Anyway he sees the folks every now and again and they havn't done anything with it and indicated (to him) they might be interested in parting with it.......so.........maybe........keeping my fingers crossed. JH
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Postby cjpenny89 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:42 am

Try not chocking the engine! If with one crank you get that much gas dripping out of the carb you should not need it choked. or half choke it.

put it on TDC pull the cap off and make sure the rotor is on #1 and readjust the mag in needed.

did you try not choking it and putting some gas in each plug hole and putting the plugs back in?

I bet once this thing fires up it will start easy every time!

do you happen to have an manifold air leak? Probably not if your pulling that much gas when the engine is choked.

good luck


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