Brought the most recent cub home

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69ranger
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:36 pm
Zip Code: 67357
Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub, 1952 Cub, 1953 Cub, 1946 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall M, 1956 IH 130, 1979 IH 140, 1959 Farmall 240.
Several Brand X Green tractors that sound strange when they run.
1969 F-100 fully restored, 1969 F 100 original paint, 1973 F 100, 50 K original miles all original, 1978 F250 repainted, 1978 Bronco, 1967 Mustang, 1973 Mach ! Mustang.
Several single cylinder Honda motorcycles from the early 70's. Adding more junk all the time.
Location: Parsons, Kansas

Brought the most recent cub home

Postby 69ranger » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:36 pm

I went and picked up the Parts / fixer upper Cub Tuesday night. All went well, and the trip home was short and uneventful.
So last night I looked it over more closely. Also most importantly, I wanted to hear this thing run, so I could hear the rattle that the guy I got it from was talking about.

So, before I started it, I drained the Engine oil that had mixed with the Hydraulic fluid.
I changed the filter and added the correct amount of 10-40 to the engine, and primed the oil pump, while I was at it.

The Mag is hot and after a quick look at the rest of the tractor, I added fuel, and quickly discovered the sediment bowl gasket a shrank up and was leaking. So after replacing that, I pulled a battery out of one of the others, and tried to start it.

It turned over for a few seconds and started right up. The oil pressure came right up, and in fact almost pegged the gauge out. It sat and ran for a few minutes, probably 20 or so, while I listened to the engine.

Yes, It has a rattle that got worse as the engine warmed up.
I am not sure where it comes from, but it speeds up as the RPM come up. Its not really loud, but you can hear it, over the engine. Its not real sharp pitched. I have heard rods knock in a Auto engine, and this is not the same sound... its softer if that makes sense?

So as I had figured, a look into the bottom end will be in order. I have to move some things around in the shop and get ready to split it apart, and remove the engine. New winter project.. :)
The weird thing about this engine is that it never smoked a bit. Most cubs that I have been around, seem to smoke a little when you rev them up, and then clear up in a few seconds.
The tractor has set for 3 years and it fired right up and the exhaust was clear and stayed that way.
So what do you all think? This rattle is probably all related to running with thin oil right? A rod? something else?
I know its hard to tell until its apart, and the condition of the rods and mains can be assessed.

Wondering about just replacing the crank with the good one that I have, and setting up the bottom end with new bearings. New rear main, and the needed gaskets, setting the valves, and putting it back together. Sort of a short cut repair, since there what no smoke, and the exhaust is really clean. So do you think I am on the right track here. I want to keep it on a budget, if I can. I plan to use it with a cultivator to work in the garden with, and probably wont work it real hard..

Oh other observations while I had it running. The charging system is working, I changed the trans oil, and the gears are quiet, the PTO works and is quiet. There does not appear to be any water leaks. The clutch seems too work ok, no weird noises. All of the cloth covered wiring seems to be in good shape, as well.
Over all i think the tractor is better than I first thought, and I am planning on saving it if I can get the engine woes worked out.

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Don McCombs
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Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
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1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
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Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby Don McCombs » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:02 pm

I might get some pushback on this, but if it were mine, I think I'd check the adjustment on the valves, add Seafoam to the oil and fuel IAW the directions on the can and continue to run it. Keep monitoring it closely for any change in the knock.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

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Eugene
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Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby Eugene » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:08 pm

Suggest looking for/identifying the source of the knocking before tearing into the engine.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Rick Spivey
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Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby Rick Spivey » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:52 am

One other thing to check, probably not the issue. But check to see that the front pulleys line up well. If for some reason the crankshaft pulley is allowed to walk outward much at all, the timing gears under the front cover can make a heck of a racket. But it is highly unusual for that pulley to walk outward, my son's cub did that but the machinist did the engine work had skimmed the crankshaft not knowing that pulley was supposed to be a press fit. Your symptoms sound more like rod or main bearings. Carbon buildup would be my last guess, and Don's seafoam suggestion should clear that up.
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
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69ranger
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:36 pm
Zip Code: 67357
Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub, 1952 Cub, 1953 Cub, 1946 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall M, 1956 IH 130, 1979 IH 140, 1959 Farmall 240.
Several Brand X Green tractors that sound strange when they run.
1969 F-100 fully restored, 1969 F 100 original paint, 1973 F 100, 50 K original miles all original, 1978 F250 repainted, 1978 Bronco, 1967 Mustang, 1973 Mach ! Mustang.
Several single cylinder Honda motorcycles from the early 70's. Adding more junk all the time.
Location: Parsons, Kansas

Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby 69ranger » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:41 am

Thank you all for the input. I tried Din's sea foam idea last night, and will run it some and see what shakes out.
Rick, I remember that pulley is a really tight press fit, but did not remember that it was what keeps the timing gears held tight. Its been several years since I had one of these engine apart that far.
I drove it around some last night, and the noise stayed about the same. It probably ran 30 minutes or more, but a lot of that was at idle, or just above.
I got a pan gasket on order from the auto parts store, and may remove the pan soon and have a look.
Can get over how clear the exhaust is on this one. Both or my other cubs smoke a bit when you rev them up after siting at idle, but clear right up after a moment. This one is clear all the time, not a hint of smoke so far.
Would like to get rid of that knock and keep the top end the way it is, if thats possible.
I changed the trans oil last night, and greased and oiled everything. Since its been out side the last 3 years, I wanted to get rid of any water that I could in the trans. It was over full, so I figured it had water in it. Not that bad, but i'm glad to have new oil in there, and at the right level.
Well that all for now.. Thanks again for the suggestions.
Brad

tst
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Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby tst » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:28 am

take the fan belt loose and run it in case the noise is from the fan /generator

ntrenn
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Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby ntrenn » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:09 am

Rattle is a far cry from a knock…sounds like a front accessory drive issue. My 65 has a slight knock that I know comes from wrist pin clearance being a couple thou loose. Was too cheap to spend money on bushings for an engine that I was unsure it would run…that was 5+ years of mowing ago..

outdoors4evr
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Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:41 am

tst wrote:take the fan belt loose and run it in case the noise is from the fan /generator

I'd definitely do this first! Maybe also use a broom handle like a stethoscope to locate the general area of the rattle.
It would be really nice to find something that was loose.

Sounds like you need to fix the TC Pump seal as well. May as well do that while the oil pan is off.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller
IH-54 Blade

69ranger
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:36 pm
Zip Code: 67357
Tractors Owned: 1948 Cub, 1952 Cub, 1953 Cub, 1946 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall M, 1956 IH 130, 1979 IH 140, 1959 Farmall 240.
Several Brand X Green tractors that sound strange when they run.
1969 F-100 fully restored, 1969 F 100 original paint, 1973 F 100, 50 K original miles all original, 1978 F250 repainted, 1978 Bronco, 1967 Mustang, 1973 Mach ! Mustang.
Several single cylinder Honda motorcycles from the early 70's. Adding more junk all the time.
Location: Parsons, Kansas

Re: Brought the most recent cub home

Postby 69ranger » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:03 am

Thank you for the suggestions. I wanted to mess with the cub over the week end, but my buddy needed my help, and so we worked on his truck a good lot of the weekend.
I did get out and to the shed and move some things around. Got some of my tractors jacked up and the weight off the tires so if the tires lose any air this winter they wont sit flat.
The Cub started right up, and I move it out of the way, so I could work. I hope to get it up to the heated garage so I can work on it this winter.
I will try the broom handle trick, as see if I can narrow this noise down. I just have to get off my butt and get started.
Yes the Pump should be an easy fix. I fixed a couple for Dad several years ago.


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