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Cub Powered Generator Questions:

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Marion(57 Loboy)
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Cub Powered Generator Questions:

Postby Marion(57 Loboy) » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:16 pm

I have been looking around at generators for when the power goes out here and read, with GREAT interest, the Cub generator post.

I have some of questions though:

1) What is the highest wattage generator head a Cub could power? My home is all electric, and I will need enough power to operate the heat pump as well as the blower in the basement.

2) Couldn't one go larger on the pto pulley and/or smaller on the generator pulley and not have to run the Cub at full throttle?

3) Would it be possible to power 2 generator heads with one Cub?

4) What gage wire and how long a run for the feed off of the generator head? (Don't want the Cub right next to the house with the exhaust fumes eh? )

5) What kind of fuel consumption/hour with the setup mentioned on the how-to post? Is it economical? Can you leave it relatively unattended?

I know this project will require some thought and math so as not to buy the wrong thing and waste time AND $$$$$.

Things that need to RUN off the generator:

1hp 220v submersible well pump

110v sump pump

110v side by side fridge/freeze (huge)

110v upright freezer 20 cu ft

220v heat pump/220v blower (I will NOT use the 'supplemental heat' option)

a couple of lamps would be nice

radio/tv

-luxury item here- the 220v water heater??

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Dave (69 lo-boy)
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Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:51 pm

I have been looking around at generators for when the power goes out here and read, with GREAT interest, the Cub generator post.

I have some of questions though:

1) What is the highest wattage generator head a Cub could power? My home is all electric, and I will need enough power to operate the heat pump as well as the blower in the basement.

>About 8kw is the most you can drive with 12-13 h.p.

2) Couldn't one go larger on the pto pulley and/or smaller on the generator pulley and not have to run the Cub at full throttle?

>If you have a large load on the gen. you will need the rpm's to make enough h.p. to keep the speed up.

3) Would it be possible to power 2 generator heads with one Cub?

>You can make about 8 kw., whether you use one 8kw gen or two 4 kw...

4) What gage wire and how long a run for the feed off of the generator head? (Don't want the Cub right next to the house with the exhaust fumes eh? )

>8 to 10 guage wire is ample for up to 50 feet at 30 amps.

5) What kind of fuel consumption/hour with the setup mentioned on the how-to post? Is it economical? Can you leave it relatively unattended?

>The cub will use about 1 gal per hr.


I know this project will require some thought and math so as not to buy the wrong thing and waste time AND $$$$$.

Things that need to RUN off the generator:

1hp 220v submersible well pump

110v sump pump

110v side by side fridge/freeze (huge)

110v upright freezer 20 cu ft

220v heat pump/220v blower (I will NOT use the 'supplemental heat' option)

a couple of lamps would be nice

radio/tv

-luxury item here- the 220v water heater??

>Add up the current draw in amps to see what size generator you need, the heat pump may draw more current than you can make AND run the other stuff.

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Postby Lurker Carl » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:12 pm

Here's what I know about Cub engines and generators. A brand new Cub engine in 1972 produced 13 hp at the flywheel without a fan or generator. The engine will use about 1 hp to power the fan and generator. Cub engines run at 1800 rpms and most generator heads are 3600 rpms, so you're gonna lose another 1 hp between the flywheel and PTO to the generator head via the bearings and belt drive.

So, you have 11 hp at the generator head. Figure on 2 hp per kw, so the maximum possible with an A-1, fresh from the rebuilder, Cub engine is 5.5 kw. You'll have to ration electricity between your appliances that take 5.5 kw (5500 watts) or less.

Volts x amps = watts. You have 5500 watts available from your generator. You'll have to find the amperage for each item on your list. Here's an example of a make believe household with made up numbers:

120 volts x 5 amps (5 lamps) = 300 watts
120 volts x 5 amps (freezer) = 300 watts
120 volts x 10 amps (TV) = 600 watts
120 volts x 10 amps (sump pump) = 1200 watts
120 volts x 15 amps (fridge) = 1800 watts
220 volts x 10 amps (well pump) = 2200 watts
220 volts x 30 amps (heat pump) = 6600 watts
220 volts x 30 amps (water heater) = 6600 watts

Remember, it takes about 2x the watts to start an electric motor as it needs to run, so you can't just add up the wattages and plug those all in. The heat pump and water heater requires too much power for a 5.5 kw generator so they can't be used. As for the others, you'll have to decide what to run, when to run it and switch between those appliances as necessary.

Here's one of many websites that can explain this better: http://www.nooutage.com/generato2.htm
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Postby Daniel H. » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:17 pm

In order to find the wattage of each appliance, you need to know not only the volts but also the amps. Watts = Volts X Amps. Once you have the wattage for each item, add them together and find the total. Assuming the cub can power an 8 kW generator head, you tatal must be less than 8,000 watts. Some items will require more power on start-up so realistically your total should be below 7,000 W or so. However, your not running everything at once and by being carefully about what you have plugged in you can ration your power. Your heat pump blower motor is most likely 120V. The heat pump, even without the electric strips is a stretch. Heat pumps are not efficient much below 40 F, and they will still have to go into defrost mode and bring on the electric strips when it gets cold enough to freeze. You might consider gas logs if you have a fire place, or a free-standing gas stove (looks like a wood stove) for back up heat, and with the right stove you could cook a little on it. These can be vented through the wall with out a chimney. You could also get a kerosene heater, just be careful. Your water heater will be around 4,000 or more watts. I switched to a gas hot water heater and a gas back up on my heat pump. I use a 6,000 W generator and can have heat, running water, hot water, microwave, refrigerator, freezer, small TV and a few lights.
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:40 pm

Marion, I run
3/4 submersible,
7 cu ft freezer
large refrigetator
blower on geothermal heat pump no heating just blower)
blower on basement wood stove (house is ducted so I can take heat form basement)
and a few lights,

that load is all a 4500 watt with 8 horse engien can handle.
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Postby cowboy » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:59 pm

:roll: Oh boy I guess I'm going to oppen this can of worms agin. Torque yes I said it :wink: . You have much more of it than any cingle cylinder gas engine so it should let you hold a higher out put. How much I don't know. Of corse that depends on the condition of you engine If it is wore out :oops: . And you want to decide if you want to put that much wear on you engine. And if you can leave it in the grage or park it next to the house in the weather and run it. On the good side the cub govener works very well if it is working right. Also you need a herz meter to set your engine speed to get 60 herz at the generator. I have 12kv gen head that runs at 1800 rpm so they are out there (my brothers got them off of e-bay this year and I will have it when I pay them for it) Other than that I would follow Carl's advice.

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Postby Harold R » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:00 pm

Well, here's my thought's on cub use for electricity. In my truck, I carry an inverter that's good for about 850w, if I remember correctly, (I've loaned it out). It's real handy for using at the camp, runs small appliances, TV, drill, leaf blower, etc. Now the tricky part. I've got a couple of spare alternators taken off cubs that I switched back to gens. I also have an "L" shaped small platform that would bolt on to the back of the PTO housing. Why not mount one of those alternators on the platform to run off the PTO pulley. Then wire one of those type inverters on the platform as well? Would this work? Alternator straight to one of those inverters, or would I have to have a 12v battery between? This would be totally independant of the cubs electrics, since it's 6v.

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Postby jostev » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:18 pm

I also have a question, could I put a "V" belt on this, and run if off of the Cub's PTO pulley? 220 watt/volt?
Image
sorry, the belt pulley is under the "cover" and it is attached to a cordwood saw, right now it is an "engine" for the saw. Thanks, Johnny
Last edited by jostev on Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:20 pm

My thoughts on generators and Cubs.
The 5000 watt generator I use is probably the best size for the engine.
A transfer switch with a load meters is highly recommended,
If you want to run "everything" get a large generator and have LOTS of fuel.
I use my generator to get by until power is restored, I don't run it 24/7, I run it for about 15 minutes every hour or so to keep the freezer and fridge cold, I might run it for 2 or 3 hours straight at night if I want to watch TV or use the computer, you can stretch what would be a couple of days worth of fuel to a week if you cycle on and off like that, during ice storms I have been w/o power for 10 days or so at a time, but I do use wood for heat which needs no juice.

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Postby Dale51 » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:22 pm

hr's49cub wrote:Well, here's my thought's on cub use for electricity. In my truck, I carry an inverter that's good for about 850w, if I remember correctly, (I've loaned it out). It's real handy for using at the camp, runs small appliances, TV, drill, leaf blower, etc. Now the tricky part. I've got a couple of spare alternators taken off cubs that I switched back to gens. I also have an "L" shaped small platform that would bolt on to the back of the PTO housing. Why not mount one of those alternators on the platform to run off the PTO pulley. Then wire one of those type inverters on the platform as well? Would this work? Alternator straight to one of those inverters, or would I have to have a 12v battery between? This would be totally independant of the cubs electrics, since it's 6v.



Yes you can but you would still need a 12volt batt. in the mix.
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Postby Lurker Carl » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:08 pm

Oh yeah, fuel. You have to have plenty of gasoline on hand. Chances are if you don't have electricity, neither does the gas station. Even with backup generators, life isn't normal when the power goes out. Luxuries like TV and computer go by the wayside, heat and water and refrigeration become rationed necessities. Cook on the gas grill, heat with kerosene or wood, candles and flashlites light your way. Conserve everything until the power flickers on for good.

I have 3 sump pumps in my basement solving a 90 year old water problem. Power outages here tend to accompany great quantities of rain/ice/snow. Our power went out early during hurricane Isabel, I found myself scavanging the neighborhood for water hoses at 2 AM to siphon out the sumps - I estimate about 500 gallons of water per hour came out of those sumps for days following Isabel. The basement stayed dry but that was continuous work for 48 hours keeping those siphons going.

I bought 3 power inverters (2500 watt continuous/5000 watt surge), 3 big deep-cycle batteries and 3 battery chargers (the little 2 amp electronic ones at Walmart). I hooked each sump pump up to an inverter with the battery as it's power supply and the charger to keep the battery up. It's an expensive solution but we don't cringe when the electricity goes out. Still, it is cheaper than a flooded finished basement. It's given me two troublefree years so far.
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Marion(57 Loboy)
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Location: Canton, Ohio

Postby Marion(57 Loboy) » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:30 pm

Well, after looking over all the replies, it seems I have to make a decision as to whether I heat with the heat pump and blower(it is 220v by the way) or the fireplace with blower(that one is 110volt).

The 5 or 6 kw will work if I don't need the heat pump. The only thing I'd need to do is isolate the blower on the fireplace from the house wiring. The only drawback there is that the heat doesn't go down the hall and then into the bedrooms too well.

It looks like if I want to run the heat pump system I'm looking at one of those 15-20kw jobs that looks like a chest freezer! Well, I can have air conditioning as well !! For one of those I'd have to go diesel for engine I think...if for no other reason- so the fuel will work when it sits in the tank for extended periods.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Anyone have some "lucky" dice I can borrow ???

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Postby 400lbsonacubseatspring » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:41 pm

jostev wrote:I also have a question, could I put a "V" belt on this, and run if off of the Cub's PTO pulley? 220 watt/volt?
Image


Johnny,

Does it work now as a motor??

What does the ID plate on it say??

It would take some serious tinkering, as obviously, it hasn't been stored well........ might be a lost cause if everything is too seriously damaged.

there were some permanent magnet motor/generator sets out there, but they are few and far between. All parts for it would most likely need to be home made.

Lastly....whatcha gonna do with that firewood saw?? LOL

Tom

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Postby 400lbsonacubseatspring » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:50 pm

Marion(57 Loboy) wrote:It looks like if I want to run the heat pump system I'm looking at one of those 15-20kw jobs that looks like a chest freezer! Well, I can have air conditioning as well !! For one of those I'd have to go diesel for engine I think...if for no other reason- so the fuel will work when it sits in the tank for extended periods.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Anyone have some "lucky" dice I can borrow ???


Well, you could always buy a second cub for $1500, and another gen head for $500, and come out many thousands ahead of the game....or even a cub power unit or two that you could mount in a cute little shed...throw the doors open, and voila...one for your house, and another for your heat pump.

Believe me the 1gal/hr or less that the c-60's use is a lot less costly than many smaller gensets. I have a northstar 8hp Tecumseh w/5000 watt continuous that seems to go through about 2 gals/hr on 1/4 load, I think simply by virtue of it's ridiculously high engine speed. It is also loud enough that when I take it to shows and fairs, my neighbours complain about the noise constantly. After 8 hrs of using it, my nerves are shattered, just from the noise. There's nothing "soothing" about 3600 rpm air cooled engines., unlike the cub's put put, which I can listen to all day.

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Postby Eugene » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:05 am

Kerosene catalytic space heaters as an emergency heat source. Smaller heaters are not overly expensive. Kerosene doesn't go bad like gasoline.

Just a thought.

Eugene


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