Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

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w30bob
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Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby w30bob » Sat May 19, 2018 11:13 am

Hi Guys,

How do you guys know what the original blue color used on Cub implements really was? What I mean is I've seen lots of restored Cubs with nice shiny blue implements..........and they look great. But how do we know what the actual color blue of original Farmall implements really was? We know it was blue.....I'm not questioning that.....but what shade of blue?

The paint on the plow that came with my recent '77 acquisition is too far gone from a paint quality standpoint and the surface is too rough to really get a good look at any original paint. So I went out into the barn where I've got a bunch of original implements that came with my '59 when I got it 20 years ago. Amongst the pile of dirt and steel I found a 193 Plow Depth Control Lever..........so I pulled it out. Good thing about the crappy Maryland dirt we have around here is when you keep it dry it actually preserves steel and doesn't corrode it. Yeah, it's that bad. So I put the depth control lever in the wheelbarrow and took a hose and bristle brush to it. Under the inch of dust/dirt I found most of it's original blue paint intact! Not show quality by any means, but more paint than rusted steel. And the color is a very DARK BLUE......not the pretty medium blue I always see Cub implements painted. I believe that when most paint gets old, fades and oxidizes, it gets lighter, not darker. So this got me wondering how exactly we know which color blue Farmall implements were really painted. Does someone have some NOS implements that never left the dealership.........or are we going by color photos in old literature? Surely don't want to start a debate or worse, just want to know what the reference is in regards to the blue color used on implements. It's still raining today, but if it ever stops I'll dry off the lever and take some pics to post.

thanks,
bob

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby J3 Driver » Sat May 19, 2018 11:31 am

AB6EF248-110A-415B-8FAA-C2E4134035A3.jpeg


Ace hardware has a blue IH implement paint. It’s very close.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby w30bob » Sat May 19, 2018 11:44 am

Hi J3,

I'm not trying to be an ass.......but HOW do you know that? I've used paint that said it was IH Red....and it wasn't.....so how do you know the paint shade Ace is selling as IH Blue Implement paint is the "correct" shade? Maybe most don't care as long as it's close..........I'm just anal about such things.

thanks,
bob

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby J3 Driver » Sat May 19, 2018 11:57 am

Well when held up to the part of the cultivator that I hadn’t repainted it looked very close. And I didn’t say it was exact. Just pretty close. Which is good enough for me.

It’s closer than anything else I have found without going to the store with the old piece and having it matched. And even then it won’t be perfect.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby Clownfish » Sat May 19, 2018 12:14 pm

Try the Wisconsin Historical Society Files-- http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/search/collection/ihc/searchterm/paint%20committee/field/title/mode/exact/conn/and/order/title. The decisions of the Paint Committee are here. If you have the time you can search these decisions and hopefully find the implement your are looking for and the Committee Decision about the Color.

There is a new Forum on the site to try to assist in determining what the original colors were. http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=237&t=100716 As pictures of the different implemts showing the VERIFIED colors can be obtained, they will be posted on this forum. Hopefully the colors can be verified by the Paint Committee Decisions. The colors in the pictures may not be the exact shade but you will be able to see the basic color. This is a long term project but maybe the common implements and be added in the not too distant future.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby Peter Person » Sat May 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Bob,
Both my FH Plow Chief Moldboard and my sickle bar mower have original blue paint on them. They came with my 57 Cub. I am the 3rd owner.
Here is a shield from the sickle bar mower.
image.jpeg


Looks much darker than some blue painted implements I've seen.

Peter
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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby w30bob » Sat May 19, 2018 1:10 pm

Hi Peter,

Yes, that's about the same darkness as my depth control handle.....darker than what a lot of restored implements that I've seen look like. Will get a pic up later.

thanks,
bob

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby radioguy41 » Sat May 19, 2018 4:22 pm

I also have a depth adjuster with remnants of original paint and it too is a dark blue. It's very close to the photo posted by J3 Driver.
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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby Jim Becker » Sat May 19, 2018 7:12 pm

I have a couple NOS parts and some others I have repainted with Van Sickle 460. I could take and post a single picture with both kinds of paint. That would nullify any appearance of difference due to camera or display behavior.

Blue probably had the most variation in shade as it came from the factory of any IH paint. There were a few things in the time period shortly after WWII that were a very pale blue, almost like robin egg vs. navy. It has been speculated that some machines were built by a subcontractor that used the wrong thing. I have never found any documentation to explain the odd shade.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby radioguy41 » Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 am

FWIW. The first is a remnant of blue on a plow depth adjuster. The second is a remnant on a 193 plow. The third one is the underside of an original sickle mower belt shield. All seem to be the same shade of blue, much darker than what is commonly seen on restorations these days.

IH blue-2.jpg


IH blue-3.jpg


IH blue-5.jpg
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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby w30bob » Mon May 21, 2018 9:35 am

Hi Radioguy,

Yup.....mine look to be the same color. Here's a couple pics of my depth control....

regards,
bob

Image

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon May 21, 2018 2:22 pm

w30bob wrote:Hi J3,

I'm not trying to be an ass.......but HOW do you know that? I've used paint that said it was IH Red....and it wasn't.....so how do you know the paint shade Ace is selling as IH Blue Implement paint is the "correct" shade? Maybe most don't care as long as it's close..........I'm just anal about such things.

thanks,
bob


The short answer is, YOU DON'T.

Nobody REALLY knows what IH red looks like either. People will tell you they do, but as you said, HOW do they know that? You can't go by pictures because the films used at the time did not show colors properly. You can't go by a so-called "original" part because paint fades and weathers over time, even if it's covered and in a dark dry place.

All you can do is go by what looks right to you. If it looks right, it is right.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby Jim Becker » Mon May 21, 2018 2:37 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:. . . You can't go by a so-called "original" part because paint fades and weathers over time, even if it's covered and in a dark dry place. . . .

I consider it an open question whether a protected sample of original paint, as in an NOS part, will fade or whether oxidation will cause it to darken. I suspect it depends on what color it is and probably also varies with the chemistry of the particular paint.

I suppose your best chance for a truly accurate sample would be to take a reasonably good looking NOS part and use an automotive grade paint cleaner or compound to clean a thin layer off the paint. The other option would be to get an NOS can of paint, make sure it is completely mixed and paint a new sample.

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby w30bob » Mon May 21, 2018 3:58 pm

Hi Matt,

I hear ya. I wasn't trying to tick anyone off with my question or comments, I just see so many Cub implements painted bright baby blue and I say....that's not even close! I would think finding the paint codes from the primary paint suppliers back in the day would yield acceptable color matches if the paint we had today was anything like the paint they had 60+ years ago.........but it's not. I think Jim has it right.....the best we can do today is find an NOS part that has been protected from the elements. On my depth control I did what Jim suggested........I hit it with a new water-based quick-compound mix to knock off any oxidation and then hit it with water. This new compound can be simply washed off...which is why my depth control looks wet. I'll have to think about the oxidation thing.........I'm not thinking of any paint I've seen that actually got darker with exposure to the elements.......but I'll think about it some more. Don't need anyone losing sleep over this topic.........I was just trying to see if there were color reference standards in the tractor world........am I finding out there are not.

Did some digging on Google and found this info. Might not be relevant as some don't make paint anymore.......


FARMALL IMPLEMENT BLUE:

Napa #53 3736A
DuPont #24160
IH #1150B
PPG #10067

Need to see if I can find any color chips for those numbers..........will report back.

thanks,
bob

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Re: Blue Implement Color......Are you sure?

Postby JoeB » Mon May 21, 2018 4:38 pm

One of my IH merchandiser catalogs from either the 50's or 60's has paint chips for everything that was available at the time. They are well preserved, and are the same type used to match automotive paint in the paint stores.


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