Hydraulic tank

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ShawnAgne
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Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
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IH528 Trailer
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Farmall 300 (Clarence)
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Woods L306 72"
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Location: Versailles, Ohio

Hydraulic tank

Postby ShawnAgne » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:01 am

In the saga of leaking hydraulics I noticed what appears to be an oil leak around the reservoir towards the seat. So thinking this could also be part of the problem and was going to pull it. Just where on the reservoir the issue could be and what to look for.
Shawn Agne

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MiCarl
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1994 Speedex 1631
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Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby MiCarl » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:05 am

Presumably this is a Cub which doesn't have a separate reservoir. The touch control block has everything except the pump. There are a number of places it can leak.

On the bottom is a flat steel cover that closes off the cavity that makes up the reservoir portion. It's possible it's leaking at the mating surface.

On the rear is the cylinder head and fluid in there is pressurized when the tractor is running. In addition to the gasket on the surface of the block there are also a pipe plug or two in it.

Then there are some plugs in various locations on the touch control block.

There are both the valve and hydraulic ram on the front of the box. I think the ram rally cannot leak because it's got in internal drain outside the seal but the valve certainly can. Either of those leaking wouldn't be noticeable until it wicked along the bottom.

Personally, if I were going to pull it out I'd seriously consider just rebuilding it. At the very least new gaskets on both the bottom cover and cylinder head.
1948 Farmall Cub
1994 Speedex 1631

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ShawnAgne
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Posts: 588
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
Zip Code: 45380
Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Versailles, Ohio

Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby ShawnAgne » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:19 am

Yeah it was rebuilt by the previous owner and functioned fine. Issues happened when i added a bypass block and a second valve for snow plow. Didn't lower the relief pressure and it blew at the pump but guessing somthing probably happened in the reservoir too.
Shawn Agne

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MiCarl
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Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby MiCarl » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:30 am

There is internal pressure control in the touch control block. So over pressure in there is unlikely. Your over pressure that blew the pump was caused by your new valve blocking flow into the touch control block.

The pump cannot pressurize the reservoir because it is open to the input side of the pump. Any fluid the pump pushes into the block is immediately replaced by fluid returned to the pump from the reservoir.

The only way to over pressure the reservoir is to over fill it allowing fluid displaced by the ram to build pressure when lowering the touch control. There is a welch plug in the top of the reservoir whose purpose I expect is to pop in that situation preventing damage to the block. Perhaps you overfilled and blew the welch plug?
1948 Farmall Cub
1994 Speedex 1631

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ShawnAgne
501 Club
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Posts: 588
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
Zip Code: 45380
Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Versailles, Ohio

Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby ShawnAgne » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:54 am

That could be a very good possibility
Shawn Agne

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Rick Prentice
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Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby Rick Prentice » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:03 pm

I agree. Probably when you added fluid to the system, you had the new plow cylinder filled(air bled out) along with the lines going back to your new control valve and back up to the Touch Control unit. You removed the fill plug and added fluid till it ran out. The only issue was the power angle cylinder was probably angled to the right, along with the Touch Control cylinder out. When you installed the plug and started using the system, all that extra fluid didn't have any room in the reservoir. Something had to give.

I'd get that pressure relief adjusted so you don't cause damage to the pump, if you bottom out while angling and don't release quick enough, you also could explode the pump, the gear, or the cam gear. Deadheading the system isn't good.

Rick
When I told my dad I've been misplacing things and doing stupid stuff----His reply---"It only gets better"

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ShawnAgne
501 Club
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Posts: 588
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
Zip Code: 45380
Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Versailles, Ohio

Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby ShawnAgne » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:39 am

Yeah the pressure relief on the second valve is now set as low as it can go. I know there is a lot of noise (air?) when there is fluid in the system and it is very frothy.

So question is where should I start? Where is the welch plug? Planned on pulling off the blade today so it is just stock system. Also was going to replace the X o-ring with the regular o-ring as it was suggested the X ring may not be sealing. Also as far as filling do I have the hydraulic control lever all the way forward? Or all the way back? Also with the power angle cylinder on the blade, do I want it contracted as far as possible when filling?

Thanks in advance.
Shawn Agne

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MiCarl
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1994 Speedex 1631
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Location: Livonia, MI

Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby MiCarl » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:04 am

The welch plug (TM Tractor calls it cylinder block expansion plug) is indicated in this picture from their site:
Image

The final level in the block is set with all cylinders fully retracted (Touch control lowest position). It should be at the bottom of the fill hole. You need to disconnect implements so you can get the touch control to the full down position.

What you need to do is fill the reservoir with the cylinders fully retracted, cycle them a bunch, and then top off with them retracted. Repeat until you don't need to add fluid. Of course they're unlikely to be retracted when you start so do it with the fill plug out and a catch pan under in case it starts over filled. If you've got the fluid whipped up you may need to let it stand while the air rises out.

I don't have a power angle but my inclination would be to bleed the Touch Control first and then bleed the power angle. That will lessen your chances of emptying the reservoir and grabbing air.

The drive shaft on the pump has equal exposure to the high and low pressure sides of the pump. I'd expect any over pressure to bleed to the low side rather than blow the seal.
1948 Farmall Cub
1994 Speedex 1631

User avatar
ShawnAgne
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
Zip Code: 45380
Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Versailles, Ohio

Re: Hydraulic tank

Postby ShawnAgne » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:15 pm

Ok when I added fluid to get it functioning there was a pressure/vacuum that pushed the touch control lever on its own. Remember this was happening when I was plowing. So I've left it run and cycled it without the plug. The humming noise I had with the blade attached is gone. So going to see if after 30 or 45 minutes if the fluid is still there. Thinking I had/have a couple problems going on at once.
Shawn Agne


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