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Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

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Pickerincal
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Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:43 pm

:lost: I'm getting ready to assemble the front of this engine and wishing the manual was a little more detailed. It's been a couple years since I took it apart so my memory is a little foggy. Any advice or steps to remember when doing this? Any information is greatly appreciated.
Brian
20190119_134207.jpg

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Dale Finch
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Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
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'55 Cub #190482 "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub #191739 "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub #194370 "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
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Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:12 pm

Sheesh, just deleted my response, so here goes again...

One thing I wanted to ask is have you replaced the front engine seal? If not, this is the time to do it...you've already done the hard part...removing the pulley!

The Service Manual below (on page 32, item 19) says to install the cover, but leave the bolts loose until the pulley has been reinstalled, allowing the cover, hence the seal, to center on the pulley.
http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1007%20Engine/GSS-1007%20Engine.htm

Also, if you do a search, there is a "gentle" way to install the pulley, which does not require heating or pounding. You don't need a special tool, as in the manual. Just a plate, all thread, nut, antisieze and a couple combination wrenches...one to have on the nut and the 2nd to use for more leverage.
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Dale Finch
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Posts: 6645
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:34 am
Zip Code: 27517
Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
'55 Cub #187541 "Betty" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub #190482 "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub #191739 "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub #194370 "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:21 pm

Here is the post that showed Raymond Durban installing a pulley:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81462&p=664098&hilit=Front+engine+cover#p664098
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Pickerincal
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Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 pm
Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:23 pm

The "front engine seal"? The seal in the gear case cover? I will be putting a new one in. Also.. the pully is grooved where the seal sits, so I will have to do something about that.

Pickerincal
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Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:38 pm

I see Raymond Durbin says he used a double wrench setup but I only see one in the picture. What am I missing? I will be ordering that seal and wear sleave kit from TM.
Last edited by Pickerincal on Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Glen » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:14 pm

Hi,
Yes, if the seal surface on the pulley has much of a groove from wear, it should have the wear sleeve put on the pulley. I guess you found it and the seal at TM Tractor. :)

I think they usually use a non hardening sealer on the ID of the wear sleeve, when putting it on, to seal it so oil won't seep out. I would read the directions that come with it, and see if they mention using sealer.

Pickerincal
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 pm
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Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
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Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:25 pm

So what about lining up the gears at top dead center before putting the cover on? This is a rebuilt block and they have Mark's in the gears, I'm wondering if those should be lined up to the marks.

Pickerincal
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Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 pm
Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:27 pm

Yes, I've read about the wear sleave. The TM kit seems to be the best way to go. I'm sure I need it so I will be ordering it tonight.

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Dale Finch
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:34 am
Zip Code: 27517
Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
'55 Cub #187541 "Betty" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub #190482 "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub #191739 "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub #194370 "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:48 pm

If I am not mistaken, their (TM's) wear sleeve comes WITH the appropriate seal:
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/en/472fp.htm
c3905s.jpg


You probably should refer to the Engine Manual:
http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1007%20Engine/index.html

And here is a page from that Manual regarding the Timing Gears:
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RonT
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Location: FL, Homosassa

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby RonT » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:14 pm

Looking at your picture, I can't tell if the governor seal is installed. Now would be the time to do that if it has not been done while you have full access to both sides.
My 2 cents
Ron

Pickerincal
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Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 pm
Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Thank you Ron.. that's exactly what I'm talking about. So the governer seal goes in the block. Which side of the seal goes toward the front, the rubber or metal?

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Glen » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:20 pm

Hi,
The governor seal faces with the seal lip facing forward, or towards where the oil is.
It can probably be adjusted slightly forward or rear in the hole so it runs on an unworn place on the governor gear seal surface.
The modern seals are thinner than the old original seals.
You would need to put on the front cover, and governor temporarily, then you can adjust the seal position in the hole.

Be sure to align the timing marks on the gears before putting the front cover on for the last time.

There is an oil galley plug behind the camshaft gear, be sure it is there and tight. The engine will probably have no oil pressure without the plug. There are other oil galley plugs on the engine also.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the front of a Cub engine, you can see the plug to the upper left of the camshaft hole. Left in the pic, it would be right to the tractor.
I'm not sure if that is another plug to the lower left of the idler gear bolt, maybe tst will write if it is.
The pic also shows the governor gear seal, older seals had metal on both sides.
The new seal may be open on the front side. :)
Attachments
Cub Block 1.jpg

RonT
10+ Years
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Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:04 am
Zip Code: 34448
Tractors Owned: 1950 Cub - Whitington
1972 154 Cub Loboy
1989 Kubota L2050
1948 Willy's CJ-2A
1924 Model T Fordor
Location: FL, Homosassa

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby RonT » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:09 am

Brian

Having just installed the governor seal in my 1950 cub engine, I used the following method to achieve precise placement in a very controlled manner.
20190102_094056 (lo res).jpg
tools to install governor seal
I used the pulley installer plate, a seal installer mandrel and 1/2 inch through bolt.
20190102_093120 (lo res).jpg
Harbor freight seal installer
After giving the seal outer rim a very light coat of Permatex, I started the seal and then pulled it into the desired depth by working against the plate on the other side.
20190102_093127 (lo res).jpg
Crankshaft pulley installer plate
This method worked well for me and used tools I had around the shop.

Ron

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:18 pm

Once the governor seal is in place you can no longer see the timing mark for aligning the the governor, so it is a good idea to mark the teeth. I keep one of the white paint sticks from the craft department of Walmart. A little liquid white out also works good.

When you install the front cover I suggest you leave the bolts loose until the pulley is installed, which will allow the seal to center on the pulley better.
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you are part of the problem!!!

Pickerincal
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 pm
Zip Code: 93455
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub
1967 Cub Cadet
1972 Loadstar 1600
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Putting the front gear case cover on. Any advice?

Postby Pickerincal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:34 pm

Thank you Ron, What are the measurements on that plate? Do you use the other two holes for anything or just the one in the middle? Is the desired depth the same as in the manual?

Thank you Glen, I will look for the plug but I'm sure it is in there as the camshaft was installed at the shop that rebuilt the engine.

Thank you Dale, I'm pretty dense when it comes to timing. I'm going to have to do more reading on it, thanks for the info. If you zoom in on my picture you can see the shop made some white paint marks on the gears already. I think that is what they are.

I really appreciate all the help, you guys are great.

Brian


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