inherited non-running Cub

[Jim Becker]

1100501 is the part number, used on Cubs 1950 until 1958 or so. 4J 9 is a date code, generator was built Sept 9, 1954. Looks like you have the original.

[Glen]

Hi,

Jim, do you have a table or something with the Delco date codes, I don't have it.
What is 5C 25.

[Jim Becker]

5 - year, '45, '55, '65, etc. You have to infer which one from knowing what decade the part number could have been made.
C - month, March. A - M sequentially for month. They skipped I and went directly from H to J.
25 - 25th. Date in month, uncoded.

This works on starters, generators, alternators, and probably other Delco products. Batteries seem to be somewhat different.

[Glen]

Hi,
Thanks for the info, Jim.

[potluck_kid]

Alright, well I am a bit stumped.

I have a compression test unit. But I can't get any movement in the engine, the starter wont turn it. When I turn the fan manually, I can see the pulley on the crankshaft moving and with the starter removed, I can see the large cog/gear inside on the back of the engine that I assume the starter turns and it turns with the fan no problem.

After I couldn't get the motor to turn over, I pulled starter again. Hooked it up to battery, works no issues just like it did last weekend. Then i bolt it back on, hook the cables up to the exact same locations on the starter and its dead. Just kind of clicks.

What gives?

[Waif]

If you have not yet ,check battery cables for perfection. Then check ground of ground cable for a very good ground with a solid path beyond connection , and the rim of the starter where it touches iron casting of tractor where bolted on for being clean.( Both the iron ,and starter lip.)
Then check starter switch for dirt and corrosion and clean contacts on both switch and starter lug.

[Eugene]

Then i bolt it back on, hook the cables up to the exact same locations on the starter and its dead. Just kind of clicks. What gives?

Insufficient amps to crank over the starter and/or the engine.

So, weak battery, or cables and cable connections, as previously suggested.

[potluck_kid]

Alright. making some progress. So i removed the starter again, took wire wheel to the surfaces, bolted back on and it will turn. Then i stopped to put the compression thing back on. Tried again. Nothing. So removed the starter again, cleaned more thoroughly, went back on. turned. but again stopped working after a few seconds, not enough time to do the compression test. Is there another surface that needs to be clean to start? Seems like a connection. So when the starter is off, the circuit is really small. But once the starter is on the tractor, has the circuit now changed to the entire tractor even if i am still connecting both cables directly to starter?

Eugene -> I pulled the battery out of my tacoma for this test. If it can start the truck, it should be able to turn this, right?

[staninlowerAL]

Then check starter switch for dirt and corrosion and clean contacts on both switch and starter lug.

Have you checked the internal contact surfaces yet?

[Glen]

Hi,
There are 4 battery cable ends on the Cub. Try taking them off, one at a time, and sanding the ends, and the surface they connect onto, so they are shiny clean. Wipe off all sanding with a clean rag.
Leave the ground cable disconnected until last, so you don't short the system.

[potluck_kid]

I might have misunderstood the original instructions. I was trying to follow Eugene's recommendation and focus on compression. I am trying to bypass the entire ignition system and just turn over the engine. So I have car battery with jumper cables. I am running the negative cable to the post/lug on the starter. I was originally trying to ground the positive on the starter but tried to moving it to other locations on tractor and had similar results. When I pull on the starter switch, my positive jumper cable starts sparking(which means the circuit is complete?) but the motor is just clicking. The starter works great when it is off the tractor and turns great when i am hooking the jumper cable up directly to the post and grounding on the housing. So what changes when the starter is bolted to the tractor? I should also say the engine is free and can be turned by hand with the fan

[Glen]

Hi,
Try hooking up the jumper cables with the positive on the starter post, and the negative grounded to the tractor.
If it doesn't turn the engine, your jumper cables might be too small to carry enough current.

[Eugene]

You here, me here, we not lost, trail lost.

It's going to take perhaps 150 amps for the starter to crank over the engine. The test amperage is 75 amps. OK, so, you may not have large/heavy enough jumper cables to crank over the starter. - - - - What did I say? When you jump start a car, you hook up the battery cables, wait a few minutes, then try to start the car. No start, wait a few more minutes to charge up the car battery.

Your starter may not be in sufficient condition to crank over the engine. Have it tested.

Install a 12 volt battery, excellent condition, fully charged in the battery box. Make sure all the battery cable connections are bright and shinny. The battery ground terminal is connected to the transmission top. And there is no corrosion in the battery cables. Now hook up the jumper cables to your running car.

Edit:

You here, me here, we not lost, trail lost.

That quote is probably stolen, misquoted, plagiarized, from a cowboy movie I saw as a kid.

[potluck_kid]

Alright, I have come to a decision point. Do i continue on????

So i think i partially figured out what was going on. I can turn the fan by hand and cycle the engine.... but there is a point in the cycle at which there is increased resistance. The belts are super tight and based on what i read in the manuals, there should be some give in the tension. So i disconnected generator belt and that spun free so i dont think it is restricting movement. It looks like i would need to remove radiator to loosen the fan belt but i am not prepared to do that this morning. Need to take a break an asses my options.

To get the engine cycling, i would essentially manually advance it past the point of resistance and then the starter could turn the motor. Maybe it is normal to have a point of increased resistance and a strong starter can just power through it? But this starter with the current power source(hooked up directly to running truck), cant get around that resistance.

Compression test -> inconclusive. I borrowed a compression test tool from oreilly's and it seems like crap. Cant get the hose on tight so there was air escaping and not building any pressure. It was just hissing around the unit. With the engine cycling and spark plugs out, i could put my fingers over the holes and feel the push & pull of air. Is that just the amount caused by the pistons moving up and down, i dont know. If the compression should be north of 100 psi and I think about how much pressure is in my bike tires at 100psi, the air movement didnt seem that strong. Regardless, seems like i am going to have to get into some more involved engine work.

Here are my questions?

1.) Is there a chance that the fan belt/fan is what is restricting the movement or is that unlikely?

1.) on a scale of 1 to 10(10 being complete engine rebuild), how complex does the point of increased resistance and the compression symptoms sound? My gut tells me that i would need to yank apart the engine. Which frankly sounds like fun if i had the free time and a place to do the work over a long period of time. But i dont so to not anger my wife anymore, i need some sort of estimate to give her as to what i would be getting into.

2.) if i walk away from this project, can anyone give me a rough market value for a non-running cub w/o implements in Wisconsin?

[tmays]

Do you have a hand crank? Can you turn engine with Hand crank through a complete revolution? If so, then starter should turn it fine. If starter won't turn it, then starter and/or connection problem. If you can't turn complete revolution with Hand crank, then may have problem in engine. Personally, I would check that everything is in order for a start attempt. If I understand correctly, you may have starter problem. Attempt a pull start.